Episode #088: The Sales Difference Maker with Molly Jacobs

Announcer: HomeStreet Bank is the sponsor of our podcasts. They’re our lender of choice, whether your banking needs are personal or business, great people, great rates, tremendous service. That’s homestreetbank.com.

Jeff: So, what if the product you sell is, well, less than sexy? We’re gonna talk to someone today who will tell you how to stand out even when your product blends in. Stick around.

Announcer: Welcome to “The Buyer’s Mind,” where we take a closer look deep inside your customers’ decision-making mechanism to reverse engineer the perfect sales presentation. Now, please welcome your host, Jeff Shore.

Jeff: Well, welcome, everyone, once again, to “The Buyer’s Mind,” a special episode of “The Buyer’s Mind” because one of the things that we love to do from time to time is bring on great salespeople. When I say “great salespeople,” you know, I’m talking about people who have a proven track record. I don’t wanna bring anybody onto this show who is not stellar in what they do, who does not have a strong track record of sales. Let’s learn from people who are doing it every day. And today, we’re gonna hear from somebody who is…they’re selling a product that’s a little less than, shall we say, riveting. So, joined as always by our show producer, Paul Murphy. Murph, tell me three things. Let’s just do one that…let’s just go back and forth. Well, you do three, I’ll do three. I want you to think of three things that you think would be difficult to sell because they’re just not that exciting or interesting. You go first. Let’s see how this goes.

Paul: Okay. How about tongue depressors? Come on, how can you sell those things?

Jeff: Yes. No, no, no, I’m totally with you. Tongue depressors, yeah.

Paul: They’re popsicle sticks.

Jeff: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m gonna go with basement painting services. So, we’re making stuff up. I’m gonna go with basement painting, who wants to paint their basement? All right. What do you got next?

Paul: My major in college, underwater basket weaving, I think baskets.

Jeff: Love it. Okay. All right. And I’ll go with replacement filters for your ice maker. It’s the type of thing that nobody really cares about. They just don’t wanna think about it. All right, last one.

Paul: Paper clips.

Jeff: That makes sense. Makes sense.

Paul: They’re everywhere.

Jeff: I’m gonna go… Sure, sure. I’m gonna go with shredded wheat simply because it’s the most boring cereal ever invented. We think about selling things that just don’t have that cachet. It presents a different kind of challenge. And today, our guest today, our sales superstar today sells a very, very interesting product. She sells boxes, cardboard boxes. Right now, if there is ever a product that is more commoditized than a cardboard box, I’m hard pressed to think what it is. So, how does Molly do it? Well, you’re going to hear it. The bottom line is her boxes are not difference makers. She is the difference maker. Look, I don’t care what you sell. As you listen to today’s episode, I wanna encourage you, think like Molly. How do you stand out? How do you become the difference maker? Now, this is important discussion that we oftentimes do not have. Why you? What makes you so memorable? How can you be the one salesperson that the customer remembers at the end of the day? And I wanna just challenge you as we’re thinking about having Molly on the show here, I want to just give you a little exercise. You’re gonna write this down now and then just give it some time to think about. Just complete the sentence. “Well, I’m the salesperson who…” dot, dot, dot.

What do you do that separates you from everyone else? And don’t say, “Well, I’m the salesperson who cares more.” And that only works if everyone else admits that they don’t really care. It has to be unique. There has to be something that you do that nobody else has laid claim to. “I am the salesperson who does,” what? And so I want you to listen to Molly, I want you to listen to her dedication. I want you to listen to her as the difference maker. Because sometimes when I say, “I’m the salesperson who does…” what is that? It doesn’t necessarily mean, “Well, I’m the salesperson who can get you a hold of ‘Hamilton’ tickets on Broadway.” No, sometimes, “I’m the salesperson who calls 10 times when everybody else only calls once.” That’s a difference maker. What is it for you? How do you stand out? I think you’re gonna love our conversation today with Molly Jacobs.

Well, from time to time, what we love to do is, of course, we love to talk to marketers, and behavioral economists, and psychologists, and all of those people that can add so much value to this podcast. But from time to time, we wanna make sure we’re keeping it real, as the kids say, kids probably don’t say that anymore. But anyway, we wanna make sure that we’re staying connected with people who are on the front line. And we do this from time to time where we’ll bring somebody in who is a practitioner, and we got a good one today. Please welcome to “The Buyer’s Mind,” Molly Jacobs. Molly, how are you?

Molly: Jeff, I’m great. Thanks for having me.

Jeff: We’ll have some fun. All right, so now, we’ve got everybody wondering, “Well, what does she sell?” Does she sell missiles to the Defense Department? Does she sell a vaccine for a little-known disease somewhere? Maybe she sells catering services to Hollywood elites. What does Molly Jacobs sell?

Molly: I sell boxes.

Jeff: Okay, so you sell boxes. You sell cardboard boxes to people who ship things for a living, right? Is that your life?

Molly: That is what I live and breathe.

Jeff: You’re the self-proclaimed box lady. I just love that. And we’re gonna talk today about what do you do to try to stand out? And I think it’s appropriate that when we talk about standing out that we’re gonna talk about standing out with a product, it is difficult to stand out. It’s one thing if you’ve got a one of a kind, totally unique item. But what if you’re selling something that other people see as a commodity? How does that happen? So, Molly, tell us a little bit about yourself because, listen, I would not have you on this podcast, except that you are really, really good at what it is that you do. You’re very successful. Give us a little bit of your background, you didn’t always sell boxes, what did you use to sell?

Molly: I started my sales career in college and I started with a product called Cutco Cutlery. So, before I was the box lady, I was actually the knife lady. So, I sold knives for about four years in people’s homes and asking for referrals and growing my book of business that way. And then after that, I started switching more to B2B. I worked with real estate agents and more in that demographic. So, that way, they would be able to buy in bulk and grow my business that way. So, that was a really good fit. And when I was approached to, you know, sell boxes on LinkedIn, I had the same thought that, you know, most people here, when you hear that idea, I wasn’t totally sold on it. But I did some research and I fell into it. And it’s been a great fit. It is a commoditized product, but in a sense, it’s actually easier to sell something so commoditized than it would be to sell a luxury high-end product that someone doesn’t need. So, I really enjoy it.

Jeff: Okay. We’ll talk about that in just a little bit, but just to make sure we’re setting the table, you were actually doing in-home presentations of how your cutlery works, channeling your inner Uncle Rico.

Molly: Yes.

Jeff: Love it.

Molly: And it was a great sales platform. You know, they taught us a lot about the buying process and asking for referrals and generating leads. And, you know, there was some naivety to it, because I didn’t realize that… It was weird to ask for referrals, so I just got so used to it that it’s a normal part of my business now.

Jeff: That’s interesting. So, you carried that forward because you just had to. I would think that the hardest part for an in-home presentation is just figuring out how to get your foot in the door in the first place. So, if you didn’t ask for a referral, if you didn’t get that referral, it meant probably 100 more cold calls before you’re gonna get another appointment.

Molly: Exactly, about working smarter and tying people into, you know, your mission, your goal, and… That was a great, it was a great stepping stone for me.

Jeff: Did you put yourself into the category of saying, “At this point, I’m too stupid to know what I can’t do”? I mean, you know, if you’re, you’ve been a seasoned pro for a little while, you’re gonna look at things like in-home presentations, and you’re gonna go, “No, no, no, I don’t wanna do that.” Because you probably have too much history. Were you just looking and saying, “Oh, really, just say this right here? Oh, do that? Oh, okay. I’ll do that”? Was it that simple?

Molly: Yeah, I almost didn’t know I committed to doing… I think part of it was that I had just gotten home from studying abroad, and I was open-minded and I needed a way to pay for school. And so, you know, I knew I wasn’t gonna sell knives for my whole life. But while I was doing it, I just jumped right in and committed. It was great.

Jeff: So, you made the jump into selling boxes and you said something intriguing just a moment ago. You said in some ways, selling boxes is easier. I’m looking at, I’m trying to figure out, “Okay, where is she going with this?” Because when we think about selling something easier, most salespeople tend to look at it and they say, “Here’s my product, it’s fantastic. It does this, it does that.” You’re gonna look at it and go, “It’s a box, you could open it, you can tape it shut, you could probably reuse it. How cool is that?” Then I’m out, then I’m out of features at that point. So, how is it easier selling boxes than something that is a feature-laden product?

Molly: Yeah, great question. You know, when I think about all the products I could sell, having a commoditized product, like a box, you know, it’s something people have to buy for the business, once they use it, they have to buy it again. And, you know, if you’re part of that integral part of their supply chain, they’re gonna keep reordering. And so that’s what really attracted me to the business is it’s sustainable, it’s repeatable. And although there’s many competitors in our industry, you know, if you’re someone who is able to show value, then really, it’s more about you than the product. So, I’ve learned how to differentiate myself a little bit.

Jeff: How?

Molly: I knew you were gonna ask that. So, lots of ways. You know, I think the motivation for customers to change suppliers is really tough. And that’s, you know, what I wanted to talk about today is just the fear of change and uncertainty, and how we can switch buyers to working with us. Different ways we differentiate ourself, I mean, people are very self-serving, so, you know, if you’re doing a good job, what’s gonna make their life easier? What’s gonna make them look good? It’s very emotionally-driven.

Jeff: Because you’re looking at it and you’re saying that people have a lot of fear of change. And I get that, I don’t think most people who have to ship things in their business are sitting around saying, “Hmm, of all the problems that I have in my life right now, way up on the list is whether I’m getting the most out of my box provider.” I’m guessing that’s not something that they’re spending a lot of time thinking about.

Molly: Most likely not. So, you know, since it’s something that’s not even on their radar, I think a lot of the times, they don’t even know that they have a problem. A lot of times, you know, it’s my job to come in and see how we can improve their current supply chain and processes and things like that. But you’re right, a lot of people don’t wanna listen if they don’t think it’s something that they need and is even on their radar.

Jeff: One way that you can look at this, you described this to me earlier on, I wanna expand on this just a little bit. When I met my wife, I was not “in the market,” okay? I was not thinking about, you know, getting married and settling down and all of that stuff. But, you know, what happened, at first, she was just another female in my life, and over time started to look at it and go, okay, there’s something special here that caused me to want to make a change for my status. You liken this to dating to some extent.

Molly: Absolutely. The sales process and prospecting is very similar to dating, lots of correlations there. You know, I’m in the business of taking business away from other clients. I know that my customers, whether they’re in manufacturing, or ecommerce, or any industry that uses a box that they already have a supplier because they have to ship things. So, I’m in the business of showing why I’m better, why my company and offerings are a better service than with their current supplier. So, you know, after my initial prospecting call, I’ll follow up, you know, it’s like texting after the first date, you know, “Had a great time, can’t wait to see you again.” So, I love to… I follow up with them that day, reaching out to them and keeping them aware of, like, what’s going on in the market, and industry trends, and price increases, all those things, trying to anticipate what their needs might be. So, that way, when it does come time to order, they know who to call.

Jeff: What do you do when somebody says, “Hey, just, you know, thanks for this great information. That’s really helpful. But just, you know, we already have a box provider”?

Molly: Compliment them. “Hey, absolutely. Great. I’m glad to hear it.” Oftentimes, I’ll ask for feedback, you know? “I’ve been in this industry a couple years, what’s something that you really like? What are they doing well for you? What could they be doing better?” And a lot of times, just having a candid, open conversation, they’ll be transparent, you know? Let you know where they’re happy. And sometimes they might convince themself where there’s a gap in that. They might find, you know, as they’re talking to you, “Oh, you know, this could actually be better, my turn times, my billing,” and a lot of times when they are in a contract or somewhere like that, I’ll actually recommend just being a backup supplier, you know, “It’s not good to put all your eggs in one basket.” And I’ll just keep that relationship open. Again, like the dating. “Well, hey, I’m here.” So, oftentimes, someone might drop the ball. And, you know, they know who to reach out to. So, I’m not super aggressive when it comes to that, but I do let them know that I’m happy to be a backup.

Jeff: Sure. Yeah, yeah. When you look at dating, and when you look at sales, let’s face it, part of being effective in the dating world is that you kind of gotta be likable. How important is likability to you as you think it through on the sales side, and the idea of attracting new business especially if, as you say, you’re in the business of taking business away from other companies? How important is just flat likability?

Molly: It’s almost at the top. You know, if you’re gonna be doing business with people, you have to, like, know, and trust them. You build that credibility and it’s a long-term game, you know, I consider myself to be a connector and a relationship builder. So, in the forefront before I even talk sales, you know, just sales 101, you have to build rapport and get to know someone, find some common interests and commonalities, you know, so you can get to that point where you can choose your customers, you’re excited to work with the people that you talk to on a daily basis, and, you know, just becoming the type of person that they would wanna do business with. It’s not just a transaction, it’s a, you know, for me, it’s a long-term relationship that I’m trying to build with these people, so.

Jeff: Let’s talk about it from that perspective, the long-term nature of it, because persistence, then, has to be a big part of what it is that you do. And let’s…I think we’ve all seen it, right? Where the salespeople will make, you know, one call, maybe two, a form email, and then they blow off that prospect and say, “Well, they’re just not interested.” I have a feeling you’re gonna tell us that that is not your MO.

Molly: Most salespeople should know… I look at it almost kind of like a challenge, like a test, you know. If a customer is not taking my initial meeting request, or emails, or things like that, I look at it as a challenge. You know, we know that sales are mostly made depending on the business between five and eight touches. So, I wouldn’t even think about giving up until, you know, I’ve heard a hard, “No, Molly, stop coming here. Stop calling me,” which most people don’t say, it’s part of the process. And what’s exciting about that is, I know once I’ve earned that trust, and I’ve worked hard to get them, it’s gonna be that much more difficult for a competitor to come in and do the same thing. So, I actually really like this, I really like those type of buyers. They turn out to be the best ones because they are used to subpar salespeople, so they do test you a little bit, I think it’s fun.

Jeff: Are there times, though, when you look at and you go, “Oh, man, this is contact number six and I’ve never gotten anywhere, you know, that there was a little spark back there in contact number one, but nothing’s happened since. Do I really wanna make this contact?” Do you look at it or do you look at it instead and go, “Okay, we’re at number six, we gotta be getting close now”?

Molly: Yeah, I get excited about that. I just know that we’re getting closer. With that said, sometimes and maybe other people listening can relate, you wonder what to talk about, you know, you don’t want to just say, “Hey, just following up.” So, I always try to find a way to add value in every type of follow-up whether it’s, you know, like I said, a price increase letter or something I found on a blog that might be relevant to their business. And this is the work of it, you know, it’s not just a blind email, you have to put some tailored thought into it and I think that goes a long way.

Jeff: Yeah, yeah. So, it’s… I don’t wanna put words in your mouth, but it sounds like you don’t deal with a lot of that rejection fear that other salespeople sometimes deal with.

Molly: No, it’s not that I don’t feel it, you know, picking up a phone and calling someone and, you know, I still have those same emotions. I think that’s what, you know, from what I’ve read and trying to condition myself, it’s just doing it anyways, feeling the fear and doing it anyways. And that’s what gets you the results, it’s not that, you know, I’m super-human. I still feel those same emotions, but I don’t let that debilitate my taking action.

Jeff: Does part of this comes from the fact that you have a lesser tendency to take rejection personally? Because that’s one of my concerns is when I talk to sales professionals who confuse the idea that a customer is rejecting a concept, they’re not rejecting an individual. But too many salespeople, I think, take it too personally, when it was not meant to be a personal affront.

Molly: Absolutely. You know, one of my favorite books, it’s really a simple short read, I’m sure you’ve read it. It’s “The Four Agreements.” And one of the agreements on there is, “Don’t take things personally.” And I constantly remind myself that, you know, whether someone’s not answering their phone, or they may be, you know, abrupt or short with you, there could be so many other variables that it’s not about me. So, that helps take the personal, you know, it doesn’t hurt my feelings if someone doesn’t get back to me. It’s my job to follow up. And it’s, you know, there’s a million other things on their plate. So, not taking things personally, I do remind myself of that a lot. It’s a great book.

Jeff: When you think about your follow-up sequence, if you know there’s gonna be multiple touches, and there are, how do you plan for that? How do you make sure? Because I think one of the mistakes that salespeople sometimes make is that they’re essentially rewriting their tactics with every single touch point. And then it’s like, “Well, what am I going to say?” and, “What am I going to do?” And I prefer to look at this as just a long story. There’s a narrative that’s going on over a long period of time and all you’re doing here is writing another brief chapter of that story. So, how do you do it? How do you approach that to make sure that that one call, or contact, or touch is connected both to the last one and to the next one?

Molly: You know, my sales process, I think the reason that I don’t lose sleep at night is because I track things, I have a defined sales process, and it really helps me know where I’m at, with each customer. But I like constant communication. So, you know, after, you know, your first date, you text them, “date” as in “meeting,” follow up. A lot of times, I’ll ask them, you know, I’ll try to go out to lunch with them, or do a site tour, or invite them to our tour, you know, just taking it to the next level, trying to add more value in every interaction. Think just like going back to the relationships and getting to know people on a personal level, remembering those little things, you know, they mentioned their niece’s birthday, or, you know, an event that they have coming up, or a trade show, just kind of pulling things back that they had mentioned, you know, a couple meetings before, that makes them think, “Oh, wow, they really care. They’re getting to know me.” And just over that lifespan of the customer, you know, say it takes a couple months to close that deal, you know, by the time I’m their main supplier, and I’m seeing them on a regular basis, we have that relationship in place. So, I try not to let it go too long between touches. I talk to a lot of my customers weekly, so I keep that open communication.

Jeff: Do you have routines? Are you a routine person for the way that you schedule your time, schedule your day, schedule your week, and make sure that, you know, you’re looking at it and saying, “Well, let’s see. I could make a phone call here. But, boy, LinkedIn or Facebook sure sounds like much more fun”?

Molly: Oh, yes. So my week really starts on Sunday nights, and I like to, you know, know what I’m getting into for the week. But on a daily basis, I think it’s really important to protect our time. You know, a lot of times, even as we’re speaking, you know, my inbox is getting emails and our salespeople were constantly responding to other people’s requests. And instead of being busy, we’re busy instead of being productive. So, something that I’ve learned, it’s not my own, you know, but I block out time for the first two hours in the morning, so from 7:00 to 9:00, that is my time to follow up. And then in the evenings, I make my calls normally around 4:00, between 4:00 and 5:00. And that is when I get to do what I need to do and then the rest of the day is for my sales calls, follow-ups, requests, all that sort of thing.

Jeff: Yep. Love it. Love it. What advice would you give to somebody who is just getting started in sales? They’ve never sold anything, but it’s their first job. What advice would you give?

Molly: My advice to any salesperson would…to be excited and actually truly care about your customers and think that, you know, it’s a long-term game and you have to truly care about what they get out of it, not what you get out of it. Because if you’re only caring about yourself, and that’s gonna come through. But when you have their best interests in mind, I really think that’s the biggest differentiator. They can tell that.

Jeff: You just have this winner’s mindset, you just have this…it’s almost like you need to win. Did I describe that right?

Molly: Yeah, I’m extremely competitive. You know, I grew up with three brothers and I’m the only girl, so naturally, I have a need to win, as long as it’s a win-win for me and the customer, that we can both both feel good about.

Jeff: I love it. I love it. Hey, before we let you go, we always do this so, you know, I’ll put you on the hot seat, ready? Some rapid-fire questions, rapid-fire answers. I’m gonna put you on the spot. You’re ready?

Molly: Ready.

Jeff: All right, your very first job was what?

Moly: YMCA.

Jeff: Okay. When you were 10, you thought you would be?

Molly: A veterinarian.

Jeff: The most beautiful place you’ve ever stood.

Molly: On top of Half Dome in Yosemite.

Jeff: Any book that you’ve read that made a profound impact on your life.

Molly: “How to Win Friends and Influence People.”

Jeff: A movie you’ve seen multiple times, but you just can’t help it, you have to watch when it comes on.

Molly: “Forrest Gump.”

Jeff: And your first celebrity crush.

Molly: Josh Hartnett.

Jeff: All right, you’re off the hot seat.

Molly: I don’t know where that one came from.

Jeff: It’s all right. We’re just going with our gut here. There are no right or wrong… You’re off the hot seat. Molly, I have to tell you it’s delightful because, you know, we talk to so many people here who are theorists in making it easier for us to understand how to be great at what it is that we do, but to talk to a practitioner who does this day after day after day, it’s incredibly inspiring. It really, really is, and my hat’s off to you. I love your energy, I love your approach, I love the fact that you don’t just simply talk about it, you walk the walk. And again, on behalf of all of us in the sales world, hats off to you. You’re the best.

Molly: Thank you, Jeff. I really enjoyed doing this, and I like listening to your other podcasts, too. You have a lot of knowledge and great speakers, so I’m happy to be a part of it.

Jeff: Well, Murph, we always love talking to people who do this on the front lines and, boy, not only does she do it, but you could just tell she’s great at it, can’t you?

Paul: When somebody has that energy, that spark, you just feel it.

Jeff: Yeah. Did you almost get the sense that she’s sort of sneaky good, you know? At first, you’re like, “Okay, here’s the salesperson who wants to sell me boxes.” But then over time, remember we had Scott McKain on the podcast and we were talking about the idea, the Steve Martin idea, “Be so good that they can’t ignore you”? I kind of get the sense that that’s how Molly goes about doing her thing.

Paul: I think you’re absolutely right. You know, she started with Cutco, which has got to be so hard to do those in-home demonstrations. I’ve had one and I bought Cutco knives. Nonetheless, it was very, very difficult and awkward for that salesperson in my home.

Jeff: Yes. Yeah, there’s no question about it. And I think that’s the type of job where…and by the way, she did that for four years. That’s the type of job where the burnout rate is so high, you basically know and are in and out within a month if you’re not gonna make it and she did it for four years, which tells you that she had the goods even back when she was selling knives. I also just love the idea of she made it sound interesting, right? She’s not naive about this, she’s selling boxes. It’s a product that could easily be seen as a true commodity. But she said, what did she say? She said in some way, selling boxes is easier because it’s more about you than it is about the product that buyers are…they have a fear of change, they’re very self-serving, and so, I gotta ask the question, “How can I make their life easier?” And I just think that this is such a tremendous way to be able to go about how you plan your own sales strategy.

If you look at it from that perspective of, “How do I make this person’s life easier?” And it doesn’t matter what you’re selling. When you start with that mindset, when you start with the idea, “How do I make this person’s life easier?” everything changes, everything changes. And so, I wanna just encourage you to spend a little time today asking the question, “What do I do to make my customers’ life easier? How do I alleviate those frustrations that they may not even fully understand that they have?” This is so critical. If you’re looking for a way to stand apart, you really have to do it by looking at it and saying how to make their life easier. And then finally, just this idea that persistence is just everything. Other salespeople are going to give up. You know, they’re gonna say, “Well, the person isn’t really showing me all the buying signals. And that customer isn’t really staying with me.” And I would just challenge you right now to listen to what Molly had to say about that. That is the sound of opportunity. If you’re gonna sit around and you’re gonna wait for other customers around you to be looking and say, “Please, please, please, will you come sell me something?” it’s gonna be a long and boring day.

If we look at it and recognize that my persistence separates me from the crowd, it is those multiple touches, and the constant adding of value that separates me from everybody else, all those other salespeople are gonna fade into the distance because they’ve simply lost interest and moved on to the next person that they’re going to talk to. But it is that persistence that makes all the difference. And then you’re gonna get the repeat customer, you’re gonna get the referral, you’re gonna have that great relationship, you’re gonna enjoy your life so much more. And I just want to just challenge you right now, and just ask you the question, how quickly are you giving up? How quickly are you stepping aside? How quickly are you just kicking that prospect into your CRM and letting your systems carry it from there? But if you stay with them, if you can prove that you are the one who is more committed, who is more serving, who will be there in the long run, that is when you get their attention. That is when you get the business, and ultimately, that is when you change their world.