Episode #016: The Sales Mastery Series – Selling to the Power Brokers with Ted Heiman

Jeff: How do you sell to a high-powered CEO? Very carefully. We’ll take a look on today’s episode of the Buyer’s Mind.

Announcer: Welcome to the Buyer’s Mind where we take a closer look deep inside your customer’s decision-making mechanism to reverse engineer the perfect sales presentation. Now, please welcome your host, Jeff Shore.

Jeff: Well, welcome everyone once again to the Buyer’s Mind where we investigate exactly what’s going on in the brains of the prospects who are considering a purchase decision. This podcast is all about taking the stroll through the buyer’s brain. It’s about knowing your customer so well that that sale begins to roll out in front of you and on today’s episode we continue with our top sales pro series. From time to time, we bring in some top professionals from the front lines and today we bring in one of the truly great salespeople in the business to business sector, Ted Heiman. I’m your host, Jeff Shore. You can read the full bio in the show notes or you can visit jeffshore.com, sign up for our free Saturday morning video newsletter while you’re there.

Murph, today we’re gonna talk about how to sell to very powerful people. You used to work for a very powerful person. I’m not gonna mention his name but certainly many in our audience would know this individual. Was there an aura that made a conversation with him intimidating for people?

Murph: Well, like you, Jeff, he was a founder and he started an organization that had specific goals in mind and specific values that he believed in. And so, when somebody’s got that kinda laser clarity, you’re just intimidated by it if you’re a person like me who doesn’t necessarily have a lot of clarity.

Jeff: Yeah. It is interesting how that works too with the high powered driven people. They have that clarity that really motivates them, that really moves them along and internally, boy, it’s a lot of firepower. And I think we’re gonna see that in our conversation with Ted Heiman today.

Here’s our quote of the day and it’s consistent with that thought and it is that confidence is contagious. You need to have enough for you and for your customer. That’s our quote from yours truly. It might be bad form to quote myself but that is a message that I send to salespeople all the time. Confidence is contagious. You need to have enough for you and for your customer. And it fits today’s episode because if we lack confidence when we’re trying to sell to the power players, we’re finished before we’re started. That said, it doesn’t matter if they are a power player. The nervous and edgy customer needs our confidence even more. Why? Because confidence is contagious and it will be adopted.

And I wanna be clear on this. When we talk about confidence, what we’re looking at here is not, you know, the whole, “I’m good enough, I’m smart enough and gosh darn it, people like me.” It’s not a bunch of self-talk. Confidence is the inner section of belief and mastery. I believe very strongly in what I’m doing and I have mastered the way in which I do it and collectively the gain to that, the benefit of that is confidence.

We wanna let you know that the podcast is brought to you in part by our friends at HomeStreet Bank. Not just our show sponsor. My lender of choice. Having used HomeStreet in my last home purchase, it was such a smooth transaction. The people at HomeStreet are professional and dependable, really, really, good people, great products, great services and if you’re a real-estate professional, you’re looking for somebody to take great care of your clients, you’re not gonna find anybody better than HomeStreet Bank. So go to homestreetbank.com to learn more. That’s homestreetbank.com.

Now, coming up in just a few minutes, an interview with Ted Heiman on how to sell to the power players. But before we do that, let me bring you our tip of the day, and today’s tip, do your homework. The internet today gives us a huge advantage that so often is not taken advantage of. Whenever possible, do your research and find out everything you can about the prospect that you’ll be meeting with, about that person’s organization, their hobbies, their interests. There’s absolutely no reason to go in cold to an appointment even if you have only their name and some very limited information. It’s all online. Do some homework. It will pay off huge and we’ll talk to Ted Heiman about that on today’s episode.

Before we get to our interview, I wanna tell you about an opportunity here and that’s to be involved in our 4-2 Academy. Our 4:2 Formula Academy, this is an intensive training program specifically for real estate sales professionals where we’re using modern selling strategies and skills just for toady’s buyers, just for today’s market. The 4:2 Formula is the core real estate principle that we talk about at Shore Consulting but it’s gonna give you several days and actually spread out over the course of an entire quarter program that’ll allow you to just transform your presentation. We put so many people through the 4:2 Formula Academy always with tremendous results. You can go to jeffshore.com/events to learn more about the 4:2 Formula Academy.

All right. Hey, let’s get to our interview now. Ted Heiman is, well, a hitter, right. He’s a mover and a shaker in the world of sales but his venue is a little different than most. His customers are very high-level CEOs selling…he’s selling very complex network security products to very large companies. This is enterprise sales. It takes a long time, a long buying cycle that requires a great deal of tactical skill but also an abundance of relational savvy since there’s oftentimes a plethora of decision makers. But today we’re gonna focus on what we can learn from selling to those power brokers and to those big companies. So please welcome Ted Heiman. Ted, how are you doing?

Ted: I’m doing great, Jeff. How are you today?

Jeff: Good, good, good. Thanks for…I’m excited to talk about this because this is a sort of a different world than many sales people get to see and so we’re hoping you’re gonna kinda give us a peek behind the curtain. So let’s start from the beginning because I know you work in a world where there are a lot of very long-term relationships and that’s what you, of course, aspire to but when you are working with somebody for the first time and you know you’re going to be meeting up with a high-powered CEO or somebody who’s just really just that power broker type of individual, how do you prepare mentally for the presentation with a client? What do you do to make sure your head is clear and your mindset is right going into that meeting?

Ted: So Jeff, much like an athlete, you need to prepare for these types of meetings and if you think about how athletes prepare for their events, a gymnast or some other type of athlete, they’re going over in their mind what this event is gonna look like and what success looks like, right. So you’re already setting it up in your head what success looks like in the meeting.

And so, there’s just a lot of preparation around making sure, one, that you’ve done your homework on the individual but two, that you go with the proper mental mindset so that you go in one, with a clearer objective and two, with that vision of coming out of the meeting with the success.

Jeff: I love the idea of preparing like an athlete. I think of the golfer in the pre-shot routine where they’re not just swinging to keep their arms and shoulders and back loose. They’re swinging with the idea of how do I envision what’s going to happen. There’s that moment of pure concentration where they’re watching the ball go in the right place or maybe if you were…we’re gonna be coming up here soon on the Winter Olympics. You know, if you see the downhill racer at the start of the run and they’re standing. Their eyes are closed but they’re bobbing and they’re weaving and they’re picturing what a perfect run looks like. I assume that there are some traits of that in your response.

Ted: Exactly. You’re preparing in that exact same way and with the outcome of having a successful run or a successful meeting. And you know, that parallel is right there.

Jeff: You said that you are…wanna make sure that you’re prepared mentally but you also mentioned here in this conversation that you wanna make sure that you’ve done your homework, you’ve done your research. How much research do you typically do before you meet with a client for the first time?

Ted: I actually do quite a bit of research, Jeff. I start preparing for a meeting like this as far in advance as possible. And it’s important that you engage the individual that you’re planning on meeting through whatever mechanisms you have available to you like social media. One, to research the individual and going to places like LinkedIn and searching them just by doing a basic Google search. You can learn a lot about an individual through those mechanisms and then you can engage with those individuals through those social media mechanisms and start to at least build some type of presence and maybe gain a little bit of credibility with an individual.

And so, an example would be if you’ve got a chief information officer that you’re planning on meeting within a couple of weeks, you might go to their Twitter page and see what activity they have on their Twitter page, what are they tweeting about, what’s important to them, what is top of mind to them, you know, in the last couple of weeks. You can do the same thing by going to LinkedIn and looking at activity on LinkedIn and see what kind of things they’re posting, what are they like, you know, what are they liking on LinkedIn and those kinds of things.

And once you start to see that and understand that, then you can start to engage with them by liking some of their content which they’ll be made aware of through those vehicles and possibly even commenting on a comment that they’ve made or retweeting a tweet and all of these things are an endeavor to, one, gain some visibility before you even walk in the door, before that first handshake. This guy can say, “Hey, you know, I’ve engaged with this individual through social media.” And I think that gives you a tremendous advantage. And so, I always spend quite a bit of time going through the various different social medias and looking at…for instance, in LinkedIn, who they know that I know because that can also be a huge help. If you’ve got somebody that you have got in common with that individual that happens to be a good friend or colleague, often you can reach out to that individual and learn a little bit about the person you’re planning on meeting with. So definitely that preparation is critical to success. Especially at the level that I’m working.

Jeff: Are you ever worried that it’s gonna come across as either cheesy or manipulative if I’m going to meet with you and so I go on LinkedIn and I say, “Hey, you went to Cal State University. My brother went to Cal State University.” Are you worried that it’s gonna come off as a little bit contrived?

Ted: It certainly can if you don’t approach it properly but I think that what I wanna do when I’m engaging with somebody through social media is add value, right. If I like their content, that’s not being cheesy. That’s something that you see that you agree with. If I comment on their content in an intelligent way as opposed to, you know, just something off the cuff, I can actually gain some credibility. So if they comment on a technology that they’re looking at like Code Signing and I can add to that conversation in an intelligent way, it’s actually a way for me to gain credibility with that individual because, “Oh, this guy gets it.”

So I think it’s about how you approach it. Certainly, I’ve been hearing more and more from these chief executives that they don’t want to have that cold call experience through social media. And because cold calling has become fairly ineffective. A lot of people are trying to engage with these individuals through social media but instead of doing it in a savvy way, they simply, you know, reach out to them, you know, with a very obvious kind of sales pitch and I think that turns people off. One thing is to engage with somebody and stimulate a conversation. It’s another thing to, you know, to reach out to them blindly and request a meeting or time on the phone or whatnot. You’re not gonna be successful if you go about with that approach.

Jeff: You know, it’s funny. In the last half hour before this conversation, Ted, I’m just thinking back to two different outreaches. So one was an email that said, “Hey, I know you do a lot of work and specialize in…” I don’t even remember what it was but it was something that I do not specialize in and clearly this person had not done their homework and they wanted me to, I don’t know, contribute to a blog or…who knows what it was? But I hit the delete button because right from the very beginning, you clearly don’t know me. But I also got a phone call from my bank. There’s a new representative there who’s taking over our account and for…my first thought is, “I don’t wanna talk to my banking representative. I hate this stuff.”

Until she said, “By the way, I was on your website and the article that you wrote about this, I’ve gotta tell you, it really helped me because I always thought this and you changed my thinking about that.” And I looked at it and I went, “Wow, okay. This is somebody who has done a little homework, has praised me, has complemented me and has given me something very, very specific.

So I think it largely comes down to the quality as you say. The value that you provide in that interaction. It’s not just, “Oh, I liked or I retweeted something or whatever.” But you add some real value. That’s what’s gonna make the mark.

Ted: Absolutely, you are correct. It’s all about the quality of the interaction and so if you take the time to do your homework…look, we’re all very busy and the guys that I’m trying to reach at the C-level are even busier. They’ve got people in front of them. We often refer to them as Dragon Slayers, and their whole goal is to kind of knock down the noise so that they only have to focus on the stuff that’s important.

And so, if you can’t gain credibility relatively quickly with these individuals, they’re gonna move on. They’ve got other important stuff to do. We’re all very busy. But as you mentioned with your banker, they caught your attention because it was clear that not only had they done a little bit of their homework but they were engaging with you around something that was important to you and therefore, you know, you think to yourself, “Hey, you know, I’m willing to have a quick chat with this individual because they went that far and I want to help them or I’m curious about what they’re trying to get in touch with me about.”

So that’s exactly what I was trying to say and that’s exactly the difference between the two types of interactions. One is thoughtful, provocative, it is, you know, really going in and researching, you know, where did that individual work in the past? You know, what kind of connections do they have? Who’s recommending them? All of that kind of information can really guide you in an effort to gain credibility with that individual and interact with them in a way that is thoughtful and gets their attention as opposed to all the rest of the noise that’s out there.

Jeff: When you’re approaching a high-powered C-level executive, I mean, you’re dealing with somebody who is responsible for, you know, an operation that’s, you know, millions and millions of revenue, a lot of people that are reporting up. Do you approach that high-powered executive substantially differently than you would anyone else? Or let’s suppose that I’m an insurance salesperson and I’m gonna sit down with a couple to talk about their life insurance options versus the way that you’re gonna approach somebody in the C-suite. Is there a different type of approach for somebody who’s in that position?

Ted: Maybe slightly but I would say in general no. Certainly, we have to approach these individuals with respect. They carry a certain level of authority, they’ve reached this…you know, a high-level within the organization. They’ve earned that level of respect. But I’m the subject matter expert in the technology that I sell. And so, when I go in there, I go in there with this idea that I wanna respect them but I also go in with the idea that we’re equals. I’m the subject matter expert and I’m gonna work with them to try and understand what the challenges that they’re facing are, what the problems that they’re trying to solve are and determine whether the solution that I have will solve those problems for them.

And so, by going in there and being that subject matter expert and you do that through the sales process and gain credibility, there’s generally no reason to treat them any differently than you would treat anyone else.

Jeff: I love that. I love the idea that, you know, that you’re equals, you’re a subject matter expert. It’s almost like if you’re working with…I think about my physician. I’ve got a good relationship with my physician. I trust him implicitly. He knows more about medicine than I do. He knows more about that science than I do but we talk in equals. My specialty is in the arena of sales and influence theory and his specialty is in the arena of medicine. It sounds like there’s a lot of similarities to that but I love the concept, “Hey, you’re the expert in this over here. I’m the expert in this over here but we’re equals as we go through.”

And I assume that that gives you a great deal of not arrogance but certainly confidence to say, “I can really add value if I partner with this individual.”

Ted: Yeah, and that’s the goal and to reach that point of mutual respect, right, because unfortunately, sales guys don’t always have the best reputation, often can be considered a necessary evil, everybody can relate to the used car sales guy. And to a certain extent, we’ve earned that reputation. Our industry has earned that reputation, right. So we have to go in there and demonstrate to these high-level individuals that’s not who we are and that’s not what we’re interested in and that what we’re really there to do is to build a long-term strategic relationships with them if it makes sense.

Jeff: It speaks to the idea that you have to have that confidence, that you believe that you can help, that you can be an advocate because it seems that being intimidated would backfire on you. They’ll probably sniff it out in a hurry if you don’t have the confidence to be able to provide the solution. They probably don’t wanna do business with you in the first place.

Ted: That is true but I think that it’s especially true in the industry that I’m in which is the security industry. There is always that one guy in the room whose job it is to shoot holes in whatever solution that you’re presenting to them is. And so, he is going to try and look at your solution from every angle and trying to figure out every possible reason why they shouldn’t deploy it or why it’s not right for them. And you have to be able to deal with those objections in an intelligent and effective way and demonstrate to that individual that you know as much about the topic as they do because oftentimes there’s a certain amount of kind of ego going on there.

And if you can do that, you can gain their respect fairly quickly and gain the respect of the room. And that’s generally what I try to achieve is to go in there and to gain the respect of the individuals in the room by demonstrating to them my competency in the subject matter and that’s really my goal.

Jeff: Do you still think though about just the relational aspect about being likable, about being nice? I ask because I had a really interesting interview when I was researching a book with a guy named Alex Talbot. He was the number one sales person for Ferrari in the United States. And before I met him I thought, “Okay, I got this image in my mind of what the number one sales person for Ferrari looks like, right.” It’s a $4000 suit, it’s the products in the hair, it’s the bling, the Rolex, right, the whole nine yards. And then I meet him and he’s just…he comes out in khakis and a polo shirt. He has no hair. He’s the most down to earth, easy going guy and a little bit later I called him and I said, “You’re not what I was expecting. I was expecting somebody who looks like they just fit right in at a Manhattan cocktail party with sort of your nose in the air and all of that.”

And he said something really interesting. He said, “I don’t know who gave anybody the idea that people who can afford a Ferrari are not nice or don’t like to be around nice people. So if I can just find myself to be likable, to be trustworthy, then it just makes for a more pleasant environment.” When…but now, here you’re in a business environment. They’re not buying a Ferrari. They’re buying network security. How much do you think about the relational aspect of what it you do, about how you come off, about building that…just the likeability that would eventually lead to trust?

Ted: Well, I think that people like to buy from successful people. And so, when they see a salesperson who is effective and successful and brings value to them, you know, it’s very compelling. But going back to your example, I think if you go into a meeting and you’ve got an absolutely fun funnel and you’re at 110% of your number for the quarter and it’s only halfway through the quarter and you’ve got, you know, a bunch of big deals lined up through the rest of the year and you have this level of confidence and you can go in there and it’s kind of like, “You know what? If this deal doesn’t happen, no big deal, you know. I’ve got plenty of other deals going on and another deal will come along.”

People can tell if you’re trying too hard, you know. And so, I think that even if you don’t have a funnel that’s 100% full and you’re not at 110% of your number, you need to go in there and present yourself as if you are. And go in with the confidence that you can bring value to this customer. And I think that people can feel that confidence, can see that confidence and it helps you to build that credibility overall.

Jeff: How soon do you follow up after an initial appointment and what does that follow up tend to look like?

Ted: So I tend to follow up as soon as possible. Meaning, I would like to follow up with them immediately following the meeting. So if we had a meeting at 1:00 and it took me an hour to get home, you know, by 2:00, I’d like to be sending that thank you email to them, thanking them for their time, thanking them for discussing their project with me, making sure that I send them any information that they requested during the meeting and try to bullet point any of the things that we talked about that were relevant and request next steps, kind of where do you wanna go from here? You know, what are our next steps from here?

So you know, the sooner, the better in my opinion because I think people respect that when you’ve had a meeting with them on Thursday afternoon and they walk in their office Friday morning and there’s an email from you saying, “Hey, it was great to meet with you. Really appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule. Here’s the information you requested. Let’s set up a meeting for next week to continue the discussion.”

You know, I think that you’re being, you know, very prompt and that you’re on top of it. At the same time, you know, we’re all salespeople and I travel and so I’m on the road and sometimes I’ve got meetings all day long and I don’t have the luxury of being able to get that email out immediately. And sometimes, you know, maybe I meet with a customer on Wednesday. I’m traveling all week and I don’t get a chance to get it out to that following Monday. I still wanna get it out as soon as possible and I may even put a note in there that, you know, I’ve been on the road traveling which is why I didn’t get back to them sooner. But you know, as a general rule, I would say the sooner, the better.

Jeff: I love that because it puts you in a position where when they get the email, what is still fresh in their mind is well, yes. The meeting and the content of the meeting but more importantly, the relationship is still fresh in their mind. And so, the one hour follow up extends that relationship. If you had a good thing going, then you get a little extra juice out of that relationship. It’s really, really cool.

We’re just about out of time but let me ask you, you know, from time to time on the Buyer’s Mind podcast, we bring on frontline practitioners, people who are actually practicing. So we don’t wanna be just all about theory. But we only bring people on who are very successful in what it is they do. You’re at the top level of achievement in your industry. So what motivates you to even higher possibilities? What inspires you? What keeps you going when you’re already pretty darn good at what you do?

Ted: Well, I love what I do. I get up every day and look forward to my day but, you know, I think that there…for your top salespeople, money is a motivator but it’s not the reason that they are where they are. You know, you always hear the 80-20 rule, that 20% of your sales people are gonna make 80% of your sales and those top 20% are people who are motivated, one, generally by money because…look, we wouldn’t do this job, we wouldn’t be in sales if it didn’t pay well because it’s hard. It’s hard work. It takes a lot of dedication, a lot of travel, a lot of investment of time and energy and so, you know, we do it for a reason. But money certainly is not the only driver, you know, from that perspective. I think that…you know, and I have to reach back out to the analogy to the athlete. You know, you can be the number one guy in the league for touchdowns but you still wanna get that…you still want that next touch…it’s not like, “Okay, I’m the leader in touchdowns so I’m just gonna kick back and hang out.”

It’s like you still strive for that next touchdown. And I look at sales in a very similar way. Each new deal is a challenge in its own way and it’s an obstacle at some level to overcome and so it’s always about that next big deal for me and I love the interactions with the customers. When you’re dealing at the level that I’m dealing, there’s a lot of politics, there’s…it’s a very complex sale. You know, you gotta sit down like you’re playing chess and you gotta think a couple moves in advance and all of that is part of the challenge. And so, you know, people say, “Why did you climb the mountain?” Because it was there. Well, you know, that next deal, it was there.

Jeff: Yeah. There is that sense of achievement drive…top performer…it’s just that they need to have it. It’s a drug to some extent.

Ted Heiman, I can’t thank you enough. That was so, so valuable to be able to look at that world of sales into a corner of the world that oftentimes many of our listeners never get to see. That was fantastic. Ted Heiman, thank you so very much.

Ted: Oh, my pleasure. Thanks, Jeff.

Jeff: Well, Murph, I love these top sales pro series because we’re hearing people that are directly on the frontline and of course, you know me, Murph. I’m vetting these people to make sure we’re only getting true bonified stars out there. These are pretty impressive folks, yes?

Murph: Very impressive. And to think about the type of people he’s interacting with is pretty amazing.

Jeff: Yeah. Anything jump out at you during the conversation there?

Murph: Yeah, this idea of how to use social media is I think really crucial. I don’t think people really know how to use social media properly to research people, to find out those answers that really would help them get along in terms of understanding their customer and being able to answer those questions.

Jeff: Yeah. But I loved the fact that as we clarified on that…because I’ve always had that sense that, “Oh, hey. You like dogs, I like dogs. How about that? See, see? We connect, right?” It can come off as really cheesy. But as he mentioned it, if you’re following them on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, whatever it is, you’re forwarding things, you’re commenting with intelligent comments. Now they know who you are and then in the conversation if you can say, “Well, you already talked about this. You talked about this and that blog post that you wrote. I really enjoyed that.”

It’s much more authentic, it’s much more real. It’s a great way, right, because there’s just a…you’ve seen it, Murph. There’s just a huge amount of information that we oftentimes don’t avail ourselves to.

Murph: Well, and it takes us back to Mark Sanborn and that idea of the thoughtful app, right, and actually being thoughtful as we’re using social media to do something thoughtful, to inject ourselves into their social media in such a way that we’re actually contributing something. Not just patting them on the back and being a yes-man.

Jeff: Absolutely. A few other things that stuck out for me. Prepare like an athlete, that mental preparation, that visualization of what this conversation is going to look like, of knowing what the end result is and then being able to plan your steps accordingly. So powerful. I loved when he said, “I am the subject matter expert. We are equals. You’re an expert in this, I’m an expert in that.” I love the idea of going into that conversation, not intimidated but also not disrespectful. I am the subject matter expert in what it is that I’m talking about here and we’re gonna have a conversation as partners in your journey.

He also said that people want to buy from successful people and this is absolutely true. When you look…if you read Robert Cialdini’s book on influence theory, he talks about this. When we look successful, when we look authoritative, people will gravitate towards that, they follow that and it makes perfect sense when you think about it. I mean, why would I want to work with somebody who I don’t trust?

And then finally, the idea of one hour follow up to extend that relationship. That’s just pure genius. I’ve been teaching this for years and years and years. Most sales people simply wait too long to do their follow up. And for a customer, 24 hours is a long, long time after you’ve completed that conversation. I think if you had a conversation with them in the middle of the day, they’ve gotta hear from you by the end of the day. If the conversation was the last thing in the afternoon, then they’ve gotta hear from you first thing in the morning but we’ve gotta shorten that up so that we’re connecting with people while the relationship is still really, really strong.

Really, really good stuff from Ted Heiman. I absolutely love that. Well, hey, let’s head into the wrap-up and, you know, we’ve been talking in this podcast about confidence and that intersection of belief and mastery. That’s what confidence is. When I believe very strongly in something and I’ve mastered the way that I do it, then the byproduct is confidence. But it starts with belief. Now, that begs the question. Belief in what? Well, I would say it comes to belief in yourself. It comes to belief in your value. Belief in your mission. Belief in your product. Belief in your customer. Belief in your own skills. The belief that you can change someone’s world today. If you don’t have that belief, then all of the mastery in the world is gonna be nothing more than manipulation. You need to look at it and say, “I believe in what I’m doing. I believe in the value that I provide to society.”

And look, if you don’t, then do something else. Life is too short to be out of sync with your value set. But I wanna look at it and say, “I wanna believe in what I do. I wanna believe in what I represent and who I work for. I wanna believe in the person standing across from me and I wanna believe that I can change someone’s world today. If my belief is right, everything else follows suit.”

All right, well, listen, at the beginning of the show I told you that we were running a contest. You have the chance to win the Bose QuietComfort 25 Acoustic Noise Cancelling Headphones. I love these headphones. I wear them when I’m traveling, I wear them when I’m listening to podcasts or when I wanna hear the strongest quality in my music. So for the winner, you can take your choice of either the Over-the-Ear or the Noise Canceling Ear Buds so you can listen to the Buyer’s Mind podcast while you’re working out, while you’re going for a run, whatever it is. You get both a physical and a mental workout at the same time.

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