Episode #026: The Purchase Before the Purchase with Mike Lyon

In This Episode of The Buyer’s Mind with Jeff Shore:

Mike Lyon of DoYouConvert.com talks with Jeff about the changing world of connecting with customers online.  Too often salespeople are hunting when they should be farming. Cultivating those sales which come to them online.  Are you hunting when you should be farming?  If you don’t understand this principle, then you need to listen to this episode.  If you do understand it, you need to listen to this episode.


Topics we’re going to cover on today’s podcast:


[2:54] Quote of the Day

[4:25] Sales Tip of the Day

[8:29] Shopping Habits of Customers

[13:14] Taking the Online Buyer Seriously

[17:23] Damage We Do to Our Brand By Not Responding

[22:00] The Height of the Emotional Buy-In

[26:17] Staying Up on Trends

[27:27] Tools for the Salesperson

[34:53] Motivational Summary


More about our guest Mike Lyon:

Mike Lyon is the author of Browsers to Buyers – he has first-hand experience in the realm of online marketing and sales. His company, Do You Convert focuses on 2 things – Online Lead Generation and Online Lead conversion.

With his energetic and entertaining speaking style, Mike has brought to life the topics of internet marketing, sales and follow up best practices at events across the country to over.


Links from today’s podcast:

Homestreet Bank

Mike Lyon’s Website 

Browsers to Buyers: Proven Strategies for Selling New Homes Online

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Read Full Transcript

Intro: Just how well educated is your customer before you talk to them for the first time? You don’t know the half of it. Stick around.

Announcer:Welcome to the “Buyer’s Mind,” where we take a closer look deep inside your customer’s decision making mechanism to reverse engineer the perfect sales presentation. Now, please welcome your host, Jeff Shore.

Jeff: Well, welcome everyone to the “Buyer’s Mind,” where we investigate exactly what’s going on in the minds of our prospects that are considering a purchasing decision. This podcast is all about taking a stroll through the buyer’s brain. It’s about knowing the customer so well that that sale begins to roll out right in front of you. I’m your host, Jeff Shore. You can read the full bio in the show notes or you can visit Jeffshore.com. And make sure you’re checking out our blog and you can find all of our social media links there as well.

I wanna start by telling you just a quick little story here. My wife and I were vacationing in Lake Taho. It was actually an extended family vacation for her parents’ 65th wedding anniversary. And while we were there, we started to look at it and said, “But what would it be like to own a place up here? So I opened up the Redfin app that I carry on my phone. It’s a great app. And I’m not just saying that because they’re a client of us. It’s a really, really useful app. And it gave me so much information. Now, I wanna be clear. I’ve not reached out to an agent at Redfin yet, but as I was using that app, I was learning all this information about the homes that we might wanna see.

But the point is that when we do talk to a salesperson, how far down the path are we? And I think this is the journey that our customer is on. Before you talk to that customer for the first time, they might be so much better informed than you have ever given them credit for. And of course, that changes everything. And so there you have it. Your customer is probably more educated than you think, and our guest today, the one and only, Mike Lyon, is gonna give us some really interesting insight on that. You’re gonna love it. Murphy, welcome back. I know you’re still recovering here from your trip to Europe here. As you’re thinking back on it here, this is where we have to ask. You were in England, you were in Ireland, tell me you ordered a Guinness somewhere along the line.

Murphy: Not only did I order a Guinness, I ordered a Murphy’s.

Jeff: Mr. Palmer, if you order a Murphy’s. Did you have a little fun with that while you were over in there with your namesake and did anybody buy you a pint?

Murphy: Nobody bought me a pint. I was a little worried I would owe people money because of the family name. I’m not sure what the Murphy’s were doing over there in Ireland, but I think they were making more trouble than it was worth.

Jeff: Well, that would be consistent with who you are. So there you go. All good. Well, welcome back. Let me give our quote of the day. This is from composer Marvin Hamlisch who says, “You mustn’t underestimate an audience’s intelligence.” Our customers, our audience if you will, are so much smarter than we sometimes give them credit for. But how do you know? And my advice is this, ask. Just ask. Ask the question. “How much experience have you had with…” Or, “I wanna make sure I’m helping you as best as I can. Have you ever purchased anything like this before?” Make sure that you’re getting into the context of what your customer already knows. You don’t wanna talk below your customer’s level of intelligence and you don’t wanna talk above it either. And the only way you can do that for sure is to ask. You mustn’t underestimate an audience’s intelligence.

Hey, our thanks to HomeStreet Bank, our show’s sponsor out there, our good friends there. Our show’s sponsor also, my lender of choice. I used them in my last real estate purchase, really, really strong. And I’ve purchased a number of homes. But I gotta tell you, everybody that I had to talk to was professional, dependable, great service, fantastic rates. If you’re a real estate professional, you wanna align yourself with somebody who’s really gonna take care of your clients, and that would be HomeStreet Bank. You can do it all, banking, home loans, credit lines, you name it. Go to homestreetbank.com to learn more. That’s homestreetbank.com.

Now, coming back in just a few minutes, an interview with Mike Lyon. But before we do that, let me give you your tip of the day. Start marking your response time in seconds rather than in hours. Now, most companies, they’ve gotta set time here. When you get an inquiry from a customer, you need to get back to them within so many hours. I’m gonna suggest you’re better off thinking in terms of seconds. And I know that sounds bizarre but stay with me because what you really wanna do is surprise them to like your customer, right?

So if you respond to an inquiry while they’re still thinking about it, that’s what will shock them, that’s what will shock them into loyalty because they’re going to see not only how responsive you are, but at the time that you reach back to them, they’re still thinking about the very enquiry that they said. So their emotions are still high, they’re still invested in this, and that’s when you’re talking to them. I would so much rather do that than two hours later when they’re back at work or dealing with a family crisis or whatever it happens to be. Start marking your response time in seconds rather than hours.

I wanna invite you to join us for the 2017 Jeff Shore Sales Leadership Summit and Expo. This is to help you become a better leader for your team, to grow your business in ways you never thought possible, and to take your career to the next level. This is the premier gathering for real estate executives, for real estate sales executives. Although I have to tell you, we’ve had people from all different industries and they’ve always gotten so much out of this. But the target lessons are for real estate executives. And you’re gonna learn from the best of the best about what it takes to make you a better leader, manager, and coach, more insights, more strategies, and more aha moments than ever before. We’ve been doing these summits for years and they just keep getting bigger and better.

Hundreds of leaders from all around North America and actually all around the world descend on Coronado, that’s right, just outside of San Diego with a Loews Coronado Resort. Bring your significant other. Stay for a few days. We meet on Thursday and Friday but most people spend the weekend. And listen, there are worse places to be in August than Coronado Island in San Diego. It’s absolutely spectacular. If you’re interested in attending the summit, just visit jeffshore.com/summit. And if you use the promo code “buyersmind,” just all one word, no apostrophe, “buyersmind,” we’ll take $200 off the registration price.

All right. Well, hey, let’s get to our guest here. You know, consumer behaviors have changed. We know that. Information is ubiquitous. Most people shopping for especially high-priced items, they conduct their research online. There was a stimulus, and now instead of walking in the store or the front door, they jump on their phone or they grab their laptop. So how do sales professionals and especially experienced professionals shift their process to embrace a lead instead of ignoring a lead? And today, I’m joined by Mike Lyon. He’s the founder and president of doyouconvert.com. I believe you can find him at that same web address. Mike is not an authority. He is the authority on online shopping habits. And today, we’re gonna talk about what we don’t know about our customers and the way that our customers are searching. So Mike Lyon, welcome to the program.

Mike: Hey, thank you, Jeff, for having me. I appreciate it. I remember having you on the Facebook live interview and your podcasting studio was all set up. And I just said, “Hey, are you gonna do a podcast?” And it turned out that you were, and I did not know that. it’s pretty good. That’s deductive. That’s deductive.

Jeff: That’s deductive. And it’s really been a lot of fun because we get a lot of really talented guests on. I am learning so much from our guests and I expect nothing less from you, my friend. So let’s get into this here. We’ve got this, well, we’re thinking about shopping habits of customers. There’s a dangerous and maybe damaging combination, rapidly changing shopping habits, slow to change sales habits. I know this is right in your world. This is kind of what you do. So I’m gonna ask you to back up and tell our audience kind of how you got started in this journey. And then let’s talk about that idea of the conflict between how quickly customers are changing their shopping habits but how slow we are often to respond on the sales side.

Mike: Oh, absolutely. And I was fortunate to kind of come up when the internet was really rich in the main stream. And I love that opportunity to reach a wide audience and I also love to sell. So my background was putting both of those together. And then you fast forward to the mid-2000s and I was able to take a position with a builder, developer as online sales and marketing director. And what that means was all these people looking for homes, you know, they wanted information and they were going online instead of going onsite. But the store, you know, the website store was open but it wasn’t being monitored. So that was back when there weren’t great processes in place. There weren’t a lot of people doing it, and this whole idea of managing it, quote and quote, “lead,” was unheard of. So we had to develop that as we went along that successful program. And I’ve had a good fortune to work with a lot of large organizations now since then, helping them implement and improve online sales and marketing program. So that’s the background.

But like you said, it comes from necessity. The reason why so many organizations need to take advantage of this is if they don’t, they’re gonna mess it up. And it’s an Achilles heel for so many different organization specifically luxury items like you guys talk about so much on this podcast. It’s huge because there’s so much research being done.

Jeff: When I think about the habits of shoppers online and how much information is available to them, I find it almost surprising if a sales professional is not well prepared for that. And I told the story earlier in this podcast about shopping for actually a vacation home but using Redfin in order to do it. And just the Redfin app on my phone enough was plenty to be able to keep me fully engaged, fully informed, fully educated long before I talked to a sales person. So whether it’s a home or a car or a life insurance or whatever it is, the sheer amount of information is overwhelming. That’s got to change the role of the sales person.

Mike: Oh, absolutely. The shift is huge. I mean, you can get anything with a swipe of your finger in a couple of seconds. And the challenge is for sales reps is just making sure they understand that all of this is happening before they ever meet with you face-to-face and a lot of times before they even, you know, fill out a form or pick up the phone and call. And back on your podcast with Nick Webb, I loved that because he talked about, you know, the pre-touch and the first touch. You know, and that first touch is the experience that a customer is going to have. And you’ve gotta take care of that. If not, they’re gonna disqualify you.

You talked about the stimulus at the beginning, that’s the zero moment of truth. You know, Google talks about this all the time. They are spending all this time researching and getting right to that finish line. They fill out a form and they reach out and then it’s crickets. And so you have to think about different ways as an organization, as a leader, as a salesperson, how are we treating these leads, you know, before they ever come and have that initial contact with us. And so that’s the big thing that we focus on.

And it’s amazing what happens if you just put a little bit of effort into that, you’ll actually see results go through the roof and just crush the competition because a lot of the competition just is not doing it. And we do a survey every single year where we go online and we fill out a form on a website and we put everything on there including a phone number which is crazy. And we actually ask a specific question. And you’d be surprised, almost 40% of the time, there is no emails. No email contact back. And roughly, between 70% and 85%, no phone call. I mean that’s crazy. I mean, it’s just nuts.

Jeff: Yeah. When you look at how much money get spent to try and gather information by marketers and to try and find the right contact information, and here you have somebody who’s giving it up for free and they still can’t get that call or respond, it’s just absolutely insane. Do you think part of it, Mike, is just the idea that we still haven’t really taken that online shopper seriously, that we might tend to look at it and say, “You know what, they’re still in that information gathering mode. They’re really not that interested yet because after all, they haven’t talked to me? How interested could they be?” Obviously, I’m being facetious here but I’m wondering if that’s not part of the issue.

Mike: Well, there’s two things that are going on. Number one is DNA. I mean, when you think about sales professionals, they tend to follow more, and I’m not gonna make a huge generalization. But if you want someone great, you want someone who can, you know, be fine with discomfort, they can understand that they’re gonna be rejected a lot of the time, they can ask for the sale, right? They can move far. I mean, they’re more of a hunter personality. And the role for managing a prospect online, a new lead, is more of a farmer. So it’s different.

You’ve got to be able to nurture. It doesn’t matter if they buy today. It doesn’t matter if they buy next week. It doesn’t matter if they buy in a year. It doesn’t matter where they’re buying from, what they’re purchasing, you’re taking care of that prospect and you’re doing lead nurturing. So the first challenge that you have is just that difference in DNA. The second is, you’re exactly right. Half the time, leads will not engage. And so a traditional sales rep is used to someone walking in door to meet him, they’re already engaging right off the bat. But half of leads will never respond back to your follow-up, back to your outreach. And so, with that, they kind of throw the baby out with the bathwater and say, “Online leads are bad.” They’re not. Just half of them aren’t ready to talk to you yet.

Jeff: Right, yeah. But how would we know if we’re not willing to call them back in the first place. You know, you were talking about how you do as a survey where you go out, you’re gonna actually ask a question that demands a response or giving in the phone number, an email address, this is marketing gold, of course, which, right from the very beginning, ought to be a clue. Because I remember reading somewhere about this statistic called the bounce off rate where if you’re…you’re sort of maneuvering through a website and you say, “Oh, I’m interested in what that might cost.” And I click on a link and it says, “Yeah, sure. Give us your name, address, phone number, email address, bank account number, social security, and then we’ll get back to you.” Boy, we can’t bounce off that page quickly enough, right? We really cannot… We generally do not want to give out that information. So if we do give out that information, there’s gotta be a profound message there that that customer is trying to tell us and we’re just flat out ignoring.

Mike: That’s exactly right. And you’re referring to something they call gated information or, you know, putting a gate up, which is fine. But even in your website, that could not have a gate, just, “Hey, reach out to us when you have questions.” The alarming statistics, or really not alarming, people just don’t know it. Only 1% to 3% of unique visitors to a website will ever fill out a form. So you’ve got 99% of people who are not ready to talk to you yet, but the 1% who finally are, you know, and we’re getting numbers and all stuff. It’s like it’s the best of the best of the best and we need to be responding to them and even responses from websites, from third party referral sites, all of this is extremely low. Like you talked about that being gold. That lead in most industries is worth $75, $150, $250. For us not to respond is just like, let’s just, you know, put a butane torch to that and light it on fire because, you know, we’ve damaged our brand and we’re not taking care of that first touch, that first moment of truth and we’re gonna have an issue for sure.

Jeff: Right. You know, here on the Buyer’s Mind, we really talk about the psychology of what customers go through when they’re in that buying process. And I’m just looking at it even from the perspective of the psychological risk that a customer takes when they do reach out online. And then what happens when they’re ignored. And, you know, I’m in the market for a new dentist. It’s been, I don’t wanna say exactly how long it’s been, but probably been a little longer than it should have been for me to visit. And it’s because I moved a couple of years ago and I don’t wanna slip all the way back up the hill to get the dentist. So I did some online search and I found this one dentist just paste on their website that said, “You know, we’re so friendly. We’re so nice. And, you know, we’re not gonna shame you, and we’re gonna make it as easy as possible.” Like, “These are just great individuals. This is who I wanna work with.” And I went to their contact page and I said, “Here’s the situation.” And it was like a, you know, “When can you get me in or whatever.” I did exactly what they told me to do. Crickets.

Mike: Nothing.

Jeff: Nothing. And I am following your instructions and I still got nothing. And I ended up making a big sweeping generalization about the entire practice based on the fact that you will not respond to your own instructions for me. And I know it’s just one simple example but I have a feeling that’s happening all over the place every single day.

Mike: Every single day. And what’s interesting, what’s the value, lifetime value of you as a customer to a dentist? It’s huge, number one. Number two, they may have technology that can reverse look up your IP address and figure out you have poor dental hygiene, Jeff, and that may be the other issue. But I don’t wanna get into that on this podcast…

Jeff: Thank you.

Mike: …about the dental association broadcast. Anyway, this is, like you said, what’s the investment? Someone’s been researching something for five months. They’ve finally build up the courage to press Submit. And they know what’s gonna happen. They’re gonna… You’re gonna follow-up a million times and da-da-da. And nothing. And that’s a huge challenge in, I think, a lot of leaders because they’re leaders and they haven’t come up in the world of online and technology and response rate. They don’t see visualization because it’s not physical, and there’s a disconnect. But I mean, come on, if we can order something off Amazon and get it the next day but we fill out a form online and we can’t get a sales rep to follow up in 48 hours, there’s a problem and we’ve been trained. I mean, that’s the challenge, is we’ve been trained with high speed internet. Everything is at the tip of our fingers. We’ve been trained to expect fast responses, but many times, it’s either slow or no response.

Jeff: Yeah. You know, I’m looking at the damage that we do to our brand, to our process, to the chances that that customer is ever gonna wanna do business with us in the first place because, you’re right, Mike. If I’m sitting there, even if I am gonna fill out a contact form online, boy, my right index finger sort of hovers above the Enter button wondering, “Am I really gonna click send on this?” And there’s an emotional risk. I’m sort of putting myself out there for you when I do this only to be flat-out ignored and now we’re just replaying seven grade for me and that’s just never, never healthy.

Let’s talk about speed here because I know that this is something else that you really do focus in on, and especially as it relates to the idea of the online shopping experience. if I’m online, I’m doing my investigation and I might hit Send and ask for information, how I am feeling about that information, about connecting with an organization at that moment I hit Send is very different than how I’m going to fill even an hour later, and certainly a day later, and then a week later, I don’t even know who you are.

Mike: That’s right. And there’s a reason for that. It’s the height of the emotional, you know, buying. It’s like, “Okay, we’re actually doing this.” So speed to lead is the number one conversation factor. You know, for anybody listening to this right now, if you just build your program on a foundation of speed, you’re gonna solve half of your problems. You know, we joke around and we say, “Speed covers a multitude of sins.” I mean, you can do a lot of things wrong, but at least if we’re communicating with someone quickly, that equals “I care” to the customer. So you absolutely have to be fast. The stats support it. People have a short attention span. They’re not gonna sit around and wait for you. And they also have a short memory, right? So they’re gonna forget who they even… Who was I talking to? Why did I fill this out? Where was this from? Who is this person? So speed to lead is, you know, when we have the process in place, that is one of the biggest factors for sure.

Jeff: You know, I think there’s a real symmetry here. We did several years ago a survey in the home building industry and discovered something really interesting. And that is that the longer someone stays in the process without purchasing, the less likely it is that they’re going to purchase. So if they’re making the decision in their, you know, their first couple of visits to a new home community, that’s all good. But the longer they keep coming in without making a decision, the less likely it is that they’re going to buy. And that came down to the idea that they move further and further away from their initial emotional appeal. It sounds like this is exactly the same behavior that you’re seeing online. You talked about the height of the emotional buying, and I think are the words that you used, at the time that I’m shopping is going to weigh in and maybe weigh in dramatically as I move further and further away without any kind of communication with an organization.

Mike: That’s exactly right. And in most industries, you’re gonna see it pretty similar, whether it’s a new home, whether it’s leasing an apartment, that’s even faster. In the auto industry, they say it’s like two to three weeks, you know. So that’s where speed is crucial just from the initial contact. But then you have to have a process in place, because a lot of people will go, “Well, yeah, I got back to him fast and I called him and I emailed him but they never responded. They’re not interested.” No, they’re busy and they’re doing other things and it’s baseball season and their kids, you know, Little League, and they have to be at the field all day long.

So you have to stay in front of those prospects. That first 30 days is crucial from a process standpoint. You’re trying to reach out to them multiple times. But then also, without neglecting the fact that persistence counts as well. So aged leads, you know, leads that have been in the data base more than three months, six months, that can make up a good 30%, sometimes even 40% of sales but often forgot. We can’t get people to think past the weekend, let alone think out two months. And so when you put all of those things together on top of that with the message, right? The messaging always has to be customer first, and I am here to help and I’m here to take care of you, not buy from me, buy from me, buy from me.

So even people who are following the process but have a message that says, “Buy, buy, buy,” that will turn somebody off. So you’ve gotta put all of those things together and you have to do it 100% of the time to get the results that we talked about. It’s a really hard thing to do especially if you’re not focusing on it or you don’t have the right person in the seat.

Jeff: You mentioned just, I think a really important insight here about, hey, the whole time that they’re going through this process of thinking about buying your home or your car or your insurance, whatever it happens to be, life is going on. You know, I’ve got issues at work and my teenager is a pain and I gotta get to a soccer game and all of this stuff, do you think that sometimes frontline sales professionals sort of give up because they think, “Well, if I’m not hearing from them aggressively, if they’re not responding that quickly, it probably means that they’re no longer interested.”

Mike: Oh, and we make that assumption all the time. And it’s because we’re focusing on the here and now. And the other side is, you know, just think about it in real life, human nature. If you were reaching out to somebody and they were ignoring you, you’d get upset, right? I mean, if I was trying to reach out to my friend and they weren’t calling me back, or they weren’t texting me back, or they weren’t emailing me back, I’d be like, “What’s wrong with you?” Like, “We’re not friends anymore.” And that’s hard because you’re like, “Well, I don’t wanna bother them and I don’t wanna be a pest to the prospect and I don’t want, you know, this and that.”

And there is truth to that but the customer will tell you when it’s enough. The customer will tell you when it’s time to stop. And here’s what we see all the time. We don’t ever hear managers or leadership complaining about calls from prospects of too much follow-up. It doesn’t happen. It’s always the opposite. I call them, they didn’t call me back. I emailed them, they wouldn’t call me back. So don’t be afraid. I mean, that’s just fear of following up and they shouldn’t be afraid of that because it is a crucial part of the sales process. If it wasn’t, we would sell 80% of the prospects in the door, but we don’t.

Jeff: Right, right. Mike, how do you stay current on trends, on consumer behavior? How do you make sure that you know what’s going on well enough to be able to go back to your clients and say, “Hey, this is what you need to know?”

Mike: I listen to this podcast called the “Buyer’s Mind.” I don’t know if you’ve heard of it. It’s phenomenal. No, but seriously, I try to absorb podcasts are great for me. It’s like rolling university. Anytime, you’re in the car, on the plane, when I’m travelling to meet clients, I’m trying to listen to podcasts. I read a lot online, which is great. And then I do audio books. You know, I’ll do some printed books every once a while but I’m a big audio book fan. So I always try and at least spend, you know, probably, I’d say, collectively, 30 minutes a day in current books and everything. When I heard Nick Webb, I had never head of his book, “What Customers Crave,” and that was from your podcast. So I got it immediately. And it’s fantastic. So you can always pick up nuggets and things like that from people around you. But I really try to do that, try and do that a lot of absorb from other places. You always have to be learning or you get stagnant, you get bored, you get rusted, and that’s never a good thing.

Jeff: You and I have a common interest in just with amplifying our lives and our businesses as much as possible. We’re both zero emails in our inbox. People, I’ve got my marriage bed just sitting in my desk as we speak. What are some of the tools that you often recommend to sales professionals to help them to be more effective and more efficient in the way that they’re reaching out to that online shopper?

Mike: Yeah, absolutely. I think probably, one of the biggest ones that I like to put in front of a sales rep is using video email. We use an app and a tool called BombBomb. The more that you can put your face, you know, everything else that comes in those nonverbal communication in front of a customer, that’s huge to get a result a lot quicker. That’s a big one. Obviously, leveraging any kind of CRM. You know, that’s the coolest thing about being able to connect with your online shopper is if you’re actually in a CRM, if you’ve got them in there, you can get notifications, or when that customer comes back to your website. You get notifications of when they open emails. And for a sales rep, I mean, that’s just invaluable. It’s like, “Maybe now is a good time to pick up the phone and actually call.” So that’s a great tool.

And another one that’s fun if you like to make a lot of phone calls which, you know, surprise, surprise in this world of online and digital, the value of a phone call has, like, doubled or even tripled what it used to be because everybody just wants to text and email, but a call is actually a great way to get good engagement and get a buyer to move forward. We like to use a tool called PhoneBurner, and that allows you to put 100 people in and it autodials for you so you don’t get call fatigue, your fingers don’t wear out. You can even leave a prerecorded voice to mail if it’s about something specific. And you can burn through your calls at 400 times the normal rate. So those are three tools that are just crucial if you want to get serious about reaching out to a database and being effective, it set your sales on fire and you can do some serious damage in a matter of two hours a day of prospecting, you can prospect like your four people.

Jeff: And the thing that’s interesting, it’s really not that difficult, right? It’s just that most people aren’t taking even that simple step. It’s not that hard. But it stands out dramatically because people aren’t taking that simple step. So I’m looking back, for example, to my last birthday. I remember in my last birthday two things. I got a card from my mother-in-law. And I just remember that so well because there was a check for $100. So I got a card from my mother-in-law and I got a video email from you Mike Lyon. And it’s all I remember about my last birthday. But what’s the point here. Why does that stand out? Because nobody does it.

And so if we could look at it and say here are the things that are not that difficult but nobody else is doing. So to me, and I think you’re gonna agree with me on this, Mike, I don’t know why video email has not absolutely taken off as the preferred method of being able to connect with customers. It’s so fresh. It should not be cutting edge but for some reason, it’s still it.

Mike: Yeah. You know, we’ve been talking about it since 2008. That’s about the same time you went to your last dentist appointment. And it’s just a fear. You know, you talk so much about discomfort. I’ve gotten, you know, to listen to you a lot. And it is not comfortable to see yourself up there on the screen, or you may not be comfortable with the way that you look but it’s just the way you look and they’re gonna see you eventually. So you’ve gotta get over those things. It is not about the tool. It is not about the app. It’s about the discipline.

And that’s what… It is kind of ironic, because, like, guys, if you just put this in place, you’re spending time doing something. If you do this, we know it’s proven to work. And I think the big thing to you, just tying to your audience and your message is extending that coffee worthiness to the digital side. Like, when you’re not in front of somebody, how do you make that happen? That is not something that is trained very often to sales team. We train them how to do it face-to-face, but when you’re talking about doing that over email, over the phone, over text message, over video email, that’s usually, you know, one little training once a year. And so it just takes a lot of work. I mean, that’s really what it comes down to.

Jeff: We’re out of time. I’m gonna put you on the spot here, Mike. Give us one piece of life advice. We’ve been talking about business advice. We’ve been talking about how to be successful with those online shoppers. We’ve been talking about the mentality of people who are shopping online, but you’ve got wisdom beyond your years. Give us a piece of life advice.

Mike: Well, I’ll steal it from Zig Ziglar. He’s always a good person to steal from but I think this carries through. When you talk about all of this stuff and reaching out to people and everything and people, “Well, that’s just too salesy. That’s too aggressive.” I don’t think it is when you put the customer first. And he always says, “If you help enough people get what they want, you’ll get what you want.” And that’s what it really is all about, is just taking care of the customer first, and that customer is online a majority of the time. So you’ve gotta make sure as a sales professional, as a leadership in organization, you have to be paying attention to that online customer.

Jeff: Fantastic. That is just such great stuff. And people can learn anything that they need to learn including how to follow you, how to get to all your social stuff, it’s all through doyouconvert.com, correct?

Mike: That’s right. You can find me there. I am on all those magical social platforms and doing Facebook live even though it’s uncomfortable, we do it.

Jeff: Mike Lyon, thanks so much for being on the Buyer’s mind. I appreciate it, buddy.

Mike: Thanks, Jeff. Thanks for having me.

Jeff: Well, there you go, Murph. Mike Lyon, you get the sense you can just talk to that guy all day long and he’s gonna drop little truth bombs on you.

Murphy: Not only that but, he’s a quick win. He’s a quick.

Jeff: He is indeed, a really good guy to spend time with him. I love just some of the perspective that he brought to this, the very idea of hunter personality versus farmer personality. And I think in sales, you know, we love the instant gratification. We love getting the sale right now, but I actually got the sense that when it comes to how you nurture that online, you need to be prepared that this could take a little bit of time but the payoff is gonna be great.

Murphy: Well, and some great lessons there that I really haven’t thought about. And that is, you know, moving faster. We tend to think, you know, you gotta be so, you gotta be cautious, maybe on the buyer’s side. But on the sales side, you’ve gotta be fast.

Jeff: Yeah, that whole speed to lead that Mike talked about is critical. And every minute counts as we move further and further away from their initial enquiry. I do find it interesting and I’m sure you’re the same way, Murph, where I get to that page where they ask for contact information, and I oftentimes cannot click off that page fast enough. Is that just me or you’re in that same boat?

Murphy: No, I’m very cautious about what information I give away these days, sure. Yeah.

Jeff: So if you are going to fill out that contact form, it must mean that you’re pretty darn interested.

Murphy: Yeah, I’m committed. At that point, I really wanna know what I wanna know. So I’m willing to give that information away if somebody is gonna respond.

Jeff: Sure, absolutely. Well, Mike Lyon is the master here. And again, we wanna encourage you, go over to doyouconvert.com, follow him online. He’s just got a wealth of information and knowledge for you. Well, as we head to the wrap up here, let me just ask you a question. What is your role as a sales professional. Because I wanna suggest, it’s not simply about offering information. It’s much more about applying information. And that means you need to know your customer well.

Now, I know we’ve all heard that. I’m supposed to discover. I’m supposed to be able to do that qualifying on it. Here’s my question. Are you gutsy enough to really dig deep? See, the information is out there for everybody. It’s a matter, for the sales professional, of how we apply that information. But I can only do that when I know that customer well. So are you willing to dig deep? Are you willing to go deeper? Are you willing to say, “That’s interesting? Tell me more.” Or, “How do that affect you?” Or, “I’m kind of curious why you responded that way.” Those follow-up questions, those dive deeper questions are the questions that are gonna unlock pieces of information about your customer that will be absolutely invaluable. But the problem is too many sales people are simply not gutsy enough to ask those questions.

I wanna challenge you, be gutsy. Dig deep, and then you’ll know exactly how to apply the valuable information that you have. Well, we appreciate you listening to the podcast. We appreciate you getting the word out there and letting other people know about the podcast as well. If you’ll consider posting a link on your social media page, we would really, really appreciate it. But that’s a wrap on our podcast today. I hope you enjoyed it. You can find everything you’re looking for at jeffshore.com. Until next time, go out there and change someone’s world.

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About the Author: Jeff Shore

Jeff Shore

Jeff Shore is the Founder and President of Shore Consulting, Inc. a company specializing in field-tested and proven consumer psychology-based sales training programs.

Jeff is a top-selling author, host of the popular sales podcast, The Buyer’s Mind, and an award-winning keynote speaker. He holds the prestigious Certified Speaking Professional designation from the National Speakers Association and is a member of the NSA’s exclusive Million Dollar Speaker’s Group.

With over 30 years of real-world, frontline experience, Jeff’s advanced sales strategies spring from extensive research into the psychology of buying and selling. He teaches salespeople how to climb inside the mind of their customers to sell the way their buyers want to buy. Using these modern, game-changing techniques, Jeff Shore’s clients generated over $30 billion in sales last year.