Episode #034: Understanding the Cynical Buyer with Marty Nemko
In This Episode of The Buyer’s Mind with Jeff Shore:
Marty Nemko, career coach, author, blogger, and cynic, works with Jeff to uncover why your customer might not look at you as a trusted source of advice. This candid conversation highlights why sales can be a difficult job and what sales skills you need to meet the needs of your customer – even the cynical ones.
Topics we’re going to cover on today’s podcast:
[2:26] Quote of the Day
[3:46] Sales Tip of the Day
[6:55] How much do you contribute to the world
[9:27] Communicating in a straight forward manner
[11:38] The cynic’s perspective of sales
[15:07] How should sales be done?
[19:38] Who should be in sales?
[27:27] Advice to those feeling stuck in a rut
[33:08] Motivational Summary
More about our guest Marty Nemko:
Career coach Dr. Marty Nemko is among the nation’s most sought-after experts on both career and education issues. Marty has been interviewed by hundreds of major media–including multiple times on everything from The Today Show to the Daily Show to NPR’s Talk of the Nation, from the New York Times to the Los Angeles Times, from Time to CosmoGirl.
Links from today’s podcast:
Jeff: You know we love those nice kind cooperative customers who love us from the start. But the real professionals know how to work with a very different customer, the cynic. Let’s get into that on today’s episode of The Buyer’s Mind.
Announcer: Welcome to The Buyer’s Mind where we take closer deep inside your customer’s decision-making mechanism to reverse engineer the perfect sales presentation. Now, please welcome your host, Jeff Shore.
Jeff: Well, welcome everyone once again to The Buyer’s Mind where we investigate exactly what’s going on in the brains of our prospect, those who are considering a purchase decision. This podcast is all about taking a stroll through the buyers mind. It’s about knowing the customer so well that that sale will begin to rollout right in front of you. We believe here that if you really get to understand the way your customer wants to buy, then you can reverse engineer your sales presentation to help them to do just that. My name is Jeff Shore, your host for The Buyer’s Mind, you can read the full bio in the show notes or you can go over to jeffshore.com for all of the resource there that will help you in your career. Joined as always by our show producer Paul Murphy. Murph, how are you doing today?
Paul: Doing great, looking forward to this discussion.
Jeff: It will be interesting indeed. Let me ask you a question, Murph. Are you a cynical consumer?
Paul: I don’t think so. I tend to be an optimistic guy. I think the glass is half full.
Jeff: Hmm, interesting and maybe it situational because for me, I am sometimes but more so, when I don’t think that the salesperson has my best interest in mind. In other words, sales people can tend to bring that on. Does that sound about right to you?
Paul: It does. If they come across greasy and whatever all of a sudden your defenses go up, right?
Jeff: Right, sure.
Paul: But otherwise, I tend to try to take people at face value and believe that they’re being honest with me.
Jeff: Well, we’re going to talk to a cynic today. And I want you to put that word in its positive light if you could. Today we’re gonna be talking to Dr. Marty Nemko. And it’s a conversation that might rattle you. And I say, “Great, be rattled my friends.” And then take the lessons and ask how you might apply them because there are some really healthy words of wisdom, if you can get past having your feelings hurt for just a little bit. To get it to that, let me give you our quote of the day from George Bernard Shaw, “The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism, by those who have not got it.”
So there’s an idea here that the cynic in us can be the most truthful of us. And I wanna start out in praise of the cynical customer. That person who walks through your door and early on they are showing you that the trust is not handed to you as a salesperson on a platter it’s something that has to be earned. And why do I wanna praise a cynical customer? Because they aren’t making stuff up, they aren’t trying to be mean. What they bring to us is rooted in reality. So we would be far better off if we stopped getting our feelings hurt and instead, ask the question, where is the truth in this statement? And trust me that will be a good mindset for you to carry when we get into today’s interview.
We wanna let you know that our podcast as always is brought to you in part by our good friends over at HomeStreet Bank. This is our show sponsor. This is my lender of choice. I used HomeStreet in my last transaction. And I have to tell you it was fantastic. Great people, great rates, great service. If you’re a real estate professional, you’re looking for somebody to take really good care of your customer, go to homestreetbank.com, you can learn more there. That’s homestreetbank.com.
Before we get to our interview, I wanna give you a tip here, your tip of the day and that is to thank your customer for bringing up the negatives. Thank your customer for bringing up the negatives. If there’s something that they don’t like, if there’s something that is off-putting to them and they share that with you, for many sales people that will throw them off. And I want you instead to go back to your customer and say, “You know what, I will learn so much more about how to help you if I know what you don’t like than if I know what you do like. So, thank you for being honest.”
Your customer is gonna bring up negatives. They’re going to bring up objections. They’re going to bring up things that are not necessarily fun, embrace that. Show your customer that this is a safe zone for them to share your concerns because that customer is being honest. That customer is being real. And it’s so much more valuable of a conversation in any aspect of life if we’re having a truthful conversation, if we’re having an honest conversation.
So when you hear the negative, pause and thank your customer, “Hey, thanks for bringing that up, I appreciate that you trust me enough to share with me what you don’t like.” You’ll go a long way towards establishing that relationship. Before we get to our interview, I want to tell you about an opportunity here and that’s to be involved in our 4:2 Academy. Our 4:2 Formula Academy, this is an intensive training program specifically for real estate sales professionals where we’re using modern selling strategies and skills just for today’s buyers just for today’s market.
The 4:2 Formula is the core real estate principle that we talk about at Shore Consulting. But it’s going to give you several days and actually spread out over the course of an entire quarter a program that allow you to just transform your presentation. We’ve put so many people through the 4:2 Formula Academy always with tremendous results. You can go to jeffshore.com/events to learn more about the 4:2 Formula Academy.
But let’s get to our interview hey I could be here all day long on this introduction alone. Marty Nemko is a Ph.D. he’s got his Ph.D. in education from Cal Berkeley, one of the most successful career coaches on the planet. He’s written eight books on a variety of subjects. Regular contributor to Psychology Today, a regular in major media, Today Show, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Time, you name it. He has his own radio talk show on NPR in San Francisco. And I’m just getting started. Marty was a professional pianist at age 14. He’s got acting experience, he’s written several plays, he’s a member of Mensa, he is a political activist of the things that matter to him. And one more thing, Marty was my first career coach and I can legitimately say that the man changed my life. So Marty Nemko thanks for being on the Buyer’s Mind.
Marty: I can see you in marketing dude. If I needed a marketer I’d know who to call.
Jeff: I owe it all to you, my friend. Marty, I’ll tell you where I want to go with this first. I wanna talk about you before we get into our subject matter. You’re a total polymath. I almost get the sense that deep down you almost wish you had more time to do the things that you…more things that you already do. You are a very, very… You live life aggressively and yet you believe in balance. How do you do that?
Marty: I don’t believe in balance. I believe in actually, that the meaning of life is defined by a risk of something like a minister, how much you can contribute to the world. So I spend as many of my heart beats as possible working my life is utterly out of balance, it’s been out of balance for 50 years. I work 70 to 80 hours a week. I’m in my 60’s. And I work more, probably now than ever, recognizing that the sands of the hourglass are draining ever quicker. But for now, while I still got my mind and my body, I work my ass off all the time.
Jeff: Then where do you have time for the other stuff that you do? I know you’ve, at least in the past, you’ve been into acting, you’ve been into gardening, you basically invented a species of rose. I mean, you do a lot of different things.
Marty: I do them in bits and pieces when I take breaks. So I’ll see a couple of clients and then I’ll take 15 minutes to play the piano or to plant a rose or whatever or write a short story and just… But I’m working…so in the end, I’m working on my main activity that is the career-related stuff for probably 50 hours a week, and probably 30 hours a week of all these other stuff. I just don’t watch TV. I don’t go to my second cousin’s third wedding in Topeka. I don’t play golf. I avoid time sucks.
Jeff: Yeah, yeah. And so part of this is a mindset, of course, part of it is just what are your disciplines but part of it is just this is that reality television just isn’t important to you.
Marty: It’s a cosmic sense really. You know, it’s not like I don’t, I mean, I watch Shark Tank periodically, but frankly, I do that while I’m eating standing up. I just have a real valuing of time, you know, it is our greatest asset and we piss it away unbelievably badly. We don’t realize how precious it is.
Jeff: You are also a prolific writer not just your books but your blogs. You write passionately. It sounds like you don’t have a huge filter if it’s on your heart you want to get it out there. Is the writing something that you’ve always enjoyed doing or is it more of a grind to you?
Marty: Not a grind it all, it comes natural. I think that’s very important for the listeners. Do what comes naturally. Writing is like breathing to me. I’m writing a book now, my 10th book. And it’s gonna be done in two months. It just comes, articles come, whatever. What I have to say in candor is being honest gets you in total trouble.
Jeff: You’re going to get assailed when you share your opinion in any event but let’s face it, you were more forceful when you share your opinions. Most people are like, “Well, how do I wanna frame this in a way not to upset people? I’m not suggesting that you don’t care about that, but, clearly, you are more intent on getting your opinion, your perspective out there in a way that it’s not gonna mince any words.
Marty: Not quite. I’m always evaluating the right balance. If I’m too tepid, I make no difference, no disequilibrium in the equilibrium in people’s complacency. If I’m too outrageous and in your face, they just think I’m, you know, I’m too much of a, you know, sour grapes or whatever. So I’m always, every sentence I write, I’m saying, “Is this unnecessarily inflammatory?” If it’s inflammatory for a purpose, I absolutely do it. If I feel it’s unnecessarily so, I don’t do it.
Jeff: Love it, love it. And regardless of political persuasion, we could probably stand for more people sharing their opinion without being so overly harshly judged about the specific word choices as it goes along there. So I have always appreciated about you and I have not agreed on everything as you will know over time. But I think that there is a room for a healthy discussion even when we disagree on fundamentally important things.
So I appreciate your willingness to do that. I wanted you to be on the buyer’s mind because you are also what I would refer to as an inquisitive cynic, and I say that in a good way. Usually, when we think of a cynic, we think of somebody who’s sort of mean-spirited, that’s not how I see you at all. It’s just that you don’t accept what someone hands to you without really evaluating both the veracity and the value of the statement. So first of all, does that sound about right? Did I get that right, Marty?
Marty: Yeah, it’s pretty good. Yup, yup, yup, there I agree.
Jeff: So I wanna talk to you about salespeople. And I gave you permission to put on that cynic hat. You can play the role of the cynical buyer because that’s actually of great value to our audience if we have sales practitioners out there they don’t get the chance often to hear, you know, straight from the horse’s mouth as it were. So here’s the situation, you’re out to buy a car or a watch or a mattress doesn’t matter. How are you feeling when you first walk into a showroom?
Marty: Skeptical. Because I know just as a citizen and as well as somebody who’s watched Zig Ziglar or steam different sales training and have clients who have been sales guys, their job they’re not order-takers. Their job is to take the unwilling or undecided and close them whether it be soft close or hard close. So and they may not out and out lie, but they will certainly hide certain things, they will emphasize certain others. So my honest reaction is this is my enemy. I start out by saying I need to even avoid the salesperson if I can at all do it and buy it online or I need to really view everything he says with a grain of salt. And yes, it’s possible that I will gain his or her trust over time, but I need to see true honest disclosures including of negatives before I trust that salesperson.
Jeff: So there’s a distaste then when you first meet that salesperson. And I assume that’s just based on your experience or even the very thought that, “Boy, is this person really look out for me or are they’re looking out for their own commission?”
Marty: They’re not looking out for me. I’m a number, I’m a dollar, I’m a, you know, some numbers on the way to meeting their quota. They don’t dig… Their caring about me is only instrumental, it’s how can I show that I’m caring about… I may even be caring, but I mainly care about me, my family, my making my number because my boss is gonna fire me or I won’t get that free trip to Hawaii or whatever the hell it is, he doesn’t give a shit about me.
Jeff: Is it possible that you’re being too harsh on this, Marty. Aren’t there some people out there, aren’t there some salespeople who are looking at it and saying, “I really do want to act in the best interest of the customer.”
Marty: They’re always gonna… that will always be secondary. Sure, they would like to straddle if they can meet the customer’s needs at the same time as they’re meeting their quota, fine, but if I use a car or a watch or whatever. If I’m selling Rolexes, I’m not going to send him down the street to do some other dealer. If I’m selling Lexuses I’m not going to send them down to the Cadillac dealer. My job is to keep him there and up-sell him and I may try to be a good listener and help and choose the right options and whatever. But in the end, my job is to close.
Jeff: Is there room for mutual purpose here, for me to look at it and say, “Yeah, granted I’m representing this manufacturer, this company, whatever it is.” But I still have to sleep at night. I still have to live with myself. And I don’t do that by sending my customer in a direction that’s not in his or her best interest.
Marty: Not in the extreme. Let’s say I know that repair record is crappy, there’s a lot of dissatisfaction, I’m clearly gonna hide that. I’m not gonna, you know, you really should buy from your local builder, they’re gonna use better subs or whatever. Here we got to just take whoever is available, I mean, clearly, even if I wanna meet the client’s needs, it’s gonna be at the minor level. Do you wanna go with our plan A or our plan B? You know, we’ll…you know, oh no, you may…you really don’t need to go upgrade to level J, probably G is enough. That may be in the client’s interest but it may also be a confidence builder to get him to close. But in the end, sales guys are primarily about themselves and their number.
Jeff: Let’s talk about what you would do differently then? If you suddenly, somebody came along and said, “Marty, I’m out of here, I’m giving you the keys to my car dealership. You are now the owner of a car dealership.” What fundamental changes would you make to the sales process or to the salespeople?
Marty: First of all, I probably wouldn’t hire salespeople type of people. I think ultimately, I would tell…I would be hiring people who are excellent listeners, communicators and who don’t give a shit about making quota. I’d be interested in people who care about service, and who would rather make less money and turn away sales than sell anything other than that really was right. And I would then teach them the art of finding… you know, let’s say and I would never take a for example, but even if it was given to me free, I would take a Toyota dealership because I really believe their cars are very high-quality and represent excellent value but I would never take a Chevy dealership, never.
And I would then make sure that my “salespeople” understood really who would be best served by a Toyota. People for whom reliability rather than sex appeal is number one or I would really do a good job of researching on my own because that’s more than I can ask of a salesperson. Really who is truly best served, not with arm-twisting, but for whom Toyota’s and each individual model represent good value? And then I’d come up with some very clever ways to attract those kind of buyers. And my advertising would be our job where I am as happy as when my salespeople turn people away as when they close because I want every single customer to feel like that you, my customer, are really number one, not their number, not their quota, not their trip to Hawaii, not their job, but their cosmic mission is to serve. And that’s how I would run…and that’s how I would differentiate myself from every other damn car dealer probably in America.
Jeff: It’s funny. Seth Godin talks about this. He gives the advice to a salesperson. If you don’t have the product that somebody wants to line up for because they want their product, because that’s right for their life, then you may be selling the wrong thing in the first place. That’s a high bar to jump over but ultimately it’s about alignment if you’re a salesperson about making sure you can stand there and say, “You know, I’m proud to represent this because I care about the person standing in front of me right now.”
Marty: And I’m happy to turn you away if it’s the right thing. And my salespeople make less money. I well and know in the car industry the F&I guys make a fortune by twisting people’s arms to get their loan through the car dealership where they’re gonna pay a higher rate or they’re gonna get their insurance through the car dealership where they’re gonna… because the middleman in the car dealership the middleman, I’m well aware my salespeople make less money. But they will, to use your phrase be able to put their head on the pillow at night.
Jeff: Yeah. If you’re in my sales environment and let’s say you’re in the market for a mattress and I’m working in a mattress store, and I greeted you and you’ve got your skepticism, and I get it if you’re in sales, you’re going to get that all the time. if I said to you, “Look, I wanna be as helpful as I can, I do not want to waste your time, can I ask you a couple of quick questions just to make sure I’m pointing you in the right direction?” Would you be okay with that?
Jeff: And would you be okay if I started by looking at it and saying, “Before we figure out what you’re moving to, tell me a little bit about where you’re coming from. Why are you thinking? What’s got you thinking about looking for a mattress in the first place?” Would you be okay with that?
Marty: It depends. Would I be aware that he’s looking for my psychological hot buttons I mean, I’m more than happy to tell them, “You know, I’ve got a back problem,” or “I’ve got this,” or, “I’ve got that.” But my antenna are out and I’m looking, he is qualifying me whether it be financially or psychologically, so he’s got information to use to manipulate me into buying his mattress. So only a few questions that would enable me if he’s got 150 mattresses on the floor and he wants to and the prices are all on it. So it’s not a pricing qualification thing.
Jeff: Right, right.
Marty: But if he’s really trying to get some factual information to narrow down my look to 30, absolutely. But if I sense he’s psychologically qualifying me, I’d say, “Oh, sales guy, would you let me…would you mind if you let me look a little bit and if I have any questions I’ll ask you?” I wanna avoid the sales guy.
Jeff: Right, right. So you’re looking and saying, “If I believe that you’re asking me questions so that so that you know how to serve, you’re okay.” That’s the barrier that you’re gonna to throw out there and make sure that sales rep can jump over it?
Jeff: Okay, all right. You’re a career counselor. Do you look at some people and say, “You should be in sales.”
Marty: Yes, of course.
Jeff: What is it that would make you say that?
Marty: Well, two things. Let’s put aside the ethics for a minute. I do think in the end, being able to resist because there is so much pressure to make your number that I really do think that in the end, it’s more important, ethics are more important in determining whether this person should be a salesperson than in almost any other field because there is so much pressure to not be ethical and not in a rampant way. But in the subtle little on a margins way, being a relatively attractive person is important. Being relatively low key, I’d be the worst salesman in the world because I’m so intense. Really good salespeople hide their intensity. They show that it’s all inside, their tenacious about wanting to close make their number, but it all does it never is revealed they’re like great, the great poker player is gonna be the great salesperson.
Somebody who doesn’t show tells but it’s like really relaxed about it all including during the closes. And then, of course, a certain measure of, you know, there’s a charisma thing. There are some people who you just like by nature, they’re just likable. I am not one of those people. I’m a good guy, I really am but I’m not a nice guy. And salespeople need to be nice guys who, people who you just wanna like the person, you wanna say, yes, to the person. But that’s critical.
Jeff: It’s interesting because you’re saying, and I totally agree with you by the way, but when you look at it, there is this idea that if somebody is really nice really likable, then we ascribe to them trustworthiness, that shouldn’t make sense. There should not be a through line between likability and trustworthiness and yet we naturally hit in that direction.
Marty: Absolutely correct, agree. If you have nothing to add or amplify, that’s exactly right.
Jeff: Yeah. I think that’s how conmen make their living, right? They just have different motives than everybody else.
Marty: Yes, exactly.
Jeff: Yeah, yeah.
Marty: Both are resilient. Resilience is the word.
Jeff: Yeah. That sound fair. That’s fair, yeah, yeah.
Marty: No matter how good you are we’re in a world that’s highly competitive and people come into your mattress deal or car dealership or a new home place, and they’re gonna pump you for all the information, yank your chain, do all that, make you do all the work and then they’ll go buy on the internet or buy from the low-cost provider. And so a good sales person, no matter how ethical, no matter how well they do it right, is going to get screwed by the customer.
Jeff: Because the system is set up for that, that’s what you’re saying. Because if again, if you were working…if you were running your own Toyota dealership, it wouldn’t be that way. The customer could buy from you, they could buy online, the customer would do whatever’s in the customer’s best interest.
Marty: Right. And so I’m gonna lose my salespeople are gonna lose a lot of people. So that’s why the people I hire have to be resilient and not too numbers driven. They have to be service driven. So that even if I know it’s a little high-minded but if a customer came in and pop me for everything I knew about Toyotas and whatever and then left and bought it online which is Amazon is getting in the business of selling cars online not just yet but they will. I have to… My salespeople have to feel that they’ve had a win even if they don’t get the sale as long as they’ve been of service.
And then in the end, when day is done if I’ve done my job as the owner of the dealership and in marketing, it is a truly different kind of a dealership, that’s really would rather have a turn down than selling somebody that’s something that’s not right for them. I will, my salesmen and I will make enough money because my marketing will be so successful and my salespeople will have walked the talk, but they have to feel okay about the fact they’re going to lose a lot of customers despite their having done a great job in the sales process.
Jeff: Think about your journey as a consumer over the last whatever four decades say, when we look at the availability of information right now online, it becomes more of an equalizer if I’m a consumer I’m a more educated consumer for especially for a major purchase decision, I’ve probably done my investigation. Based on that then, do you think the trust deficit is closing or is it getting wider? Because if I look at it and say, in the pre-internet days, as a salesperson, I could get away with a whole lot more than I can get away with now.
Marty: And it depends the people who are savvy at getting information. Like if I were buying a car, there is the mass market pricing information which is put on by kbb.com, Keller or whatever, which tells you the quote, the invoice cost of the car. And that really is way over what the car dealer actually pays. So if I’m just an average consumer and I said, “Oh, well, the car costs like the invoice price is $22,000. So if I get it for $23,000 that’s a hell of a deal.”
But if I’m a little more sophisticated I realize that there are these things called, holdbacks. There are factory rebates that don’t get sent to the customer but to the dealer. And that really the cost of the car was $19 grand. And so I’m really not getting a good deal unless I’m paying say $20 grand. So, the Internet can be a deceptive advertisement like in these phony invoice prices or if I’m a really good consumer I can learn what really…what the real dealer cost is. So it depends how good, how well you use the internet.
Jeff: To wrap up this part of the conversation, I have one more question here for you. But if we’re looking at how even a cynical, an otherwise cynical consumer might end up liking and respecting a salesperson, then it’s going to come through the route of me believing that you were looking out for my best interests, you are here to serve me. Am I oversimplifying it or did I nail that?
Marty: Hundred percent right.
Marty: That you’re willing to tell me, “No, this product is not right for you. What I have is not right for you.” or, if it really is right, really convincing me on the merits, not playing against my psychological hot buttons, “Oh, you know, he’s a real image con, he’s an aspirational brand manager…” you know. If I really believe that on the merits this guy is teaching me the information that I need to make a wise purchase and it is really is appropriate for me to buy the car I will buy it from that guy. But I really need to as you say I need to trust that he is acting in my interests not his family’s interests, not his quotas interest, but really in my interest even if it costs him. That’s the bar I need.
Jeff: And your position is in general, that’s really hard to do deep down as a salesperson, if you’re on commission you’ve got to put bread on the table you gotta do what you got to do.
Marty: Exactly, within limits. I am not saying they’re all scumbags and they will lie and cheat and so, you know, take a car that’s badly damaged that’s got a rear end that’s damaged and they make a cosmetic fix of it, but it’s really I know very few salespeople that yucky. But they will cut moderate corners to make their number.
Jeff: Yeah, yeah, and very interesting. I’ll push back on you a little bit Marty, on that. I am probably more cynical than you are in regards to the percentage of salespeople who really are motivated only by their commission and they’re sort of that Glengarry, Glen Ross, you know Wolf of Wall Street look to it, it drives me freakin’ nuts and frankly, I think the darkest corners of hell are reserved for such people.
Marty: Right, right.
Jeff: I’m gonna ask you to just before we wrap it up, take off your sales cynic hat and thank you for doing that, for playing that role it’s very, very helpful because it’s just not all sunshine or roses in the sales environment we all know that. But put on your career hat to your career counseling hat, you’ve helped thousands and thousands of people and I certainly count myself among one of those. Talk to those in the audience who are in a rut. Okay. They’re not enjoying their job, they feel stuck. I know it’s difficult to put it all in a tight little nutshell but what advice do you have?
Marty: A couple of things. First of all, there are certain products that you really can believe and they are just, they don’t sell themselves. The more complex the product, the more it requires customization, the more it requires that relationship sale, the more it requires problem-solving. If you’re selling complex customizable enterprise software or you’re selling stadiums, believe it or not, the arena, the venues get spotted and sold all the time. Or you’re selling comp fleets of airplane to corporations. It is as stimulating and interesting as imaginable. And the sales guy is critical because he or she knows all those complexities and knows how to ask all the questions and do all the research. That’s a completely interesting way to get out of your rut. If you’re selling some commodity product, you’re selling nuts and bolts or just you’re selling new homes that basically are the four models and they’re the services upgrades and the rest of it, it can be very repetitive, no matter how much you show an interest from the customer it can get boring.
So the most obvious thing is find a more interesting product to sell but really sell best in class. That’s why I keep going back to Toyota because it’s clearly every year, they’re the most reliable cars in the world because no matter how sexy the brand name, no matter how gorgeous the babies draped over the car in the commercial, in the end, if your car is sitting on the side of the road waiting for the tow truck that ain’t sexy.
So sell a great category leading wonderful product and whether it’d be best on price and quality or whatever. Sell something great, sell something complex or if it’s not, the problem is not the product but you. There are great sales trainings that can improve your sales skills while retaining your ethics. I mean, I don’t follow this very much but of course, there’s been all this attention on SPIN selling and challenger selling and I know you’ve had very successful Jeff Shore but real estate selling seminars. So getting trained can be a way to refresh, not only your style but your substance.
Jeff: Love it, love it. Well, there you have it. I’m going to take a breath and unbuckle my seatbelt. Thank you so much, Marty. I just appreciate as always, your straightforward approach not just to sales but to life in general, we need more of that. The world would be a better place. I appreciate you taking the time to be on The Buyer’s Mind.
Marty: One more little statement. You said you wanted to push back. I don’t think most salespeople are Glengarry Ross, I want to reiterate that again. Most people will make modest to moderate kind of cutting of corners, Glengarry Ross is outrageous. I don’t think salespeople are scum. I just think they have a lot of reason to…they’re not order takers. They need to do various things to try to justify that six-figure income.
Jeff: There you go. There you go. Marty Nemko, thank you so very much.
Marty: Right, take care.
Jeff: All right. Well, Murph, I think I suggested and accurately so that, that was going to be a little bit different and even a little bit biting. What were you thinking as you were listening to Dr. Marty Nemko?
Murphy: Brutal honesty. Which is refreshing in a lot of ways but sometimes, if we’re not ready for it, it might be a little hurtful.
Jeff: Yeah, yeah. Right, but it was honest. And that’s what I had tried to impress upon it earlier that sometimes what do they say, the truth hurts, right? That kind of a concept that sometimes when people are really, really honest you know what they’re doing? They’re being honest. And it may come off as cynical but it’s always based on something. It’s always rooted in something and you could hear that from Marty. He does play that role of a cynic but it’s because deep down in his heart he doesn’t think that people are always looking out or and are often not looking out for his best interest.
Now look, you can agree with that or not. It’s irrelevant at this point. Marty is the customer. And those customers who walk in feeling like, “I don’t think that you’re out there looking out for my best interest.” If that’s how they are feeling, you’ve got work to do. And if you truly do want to help that customer then you have to be able to accept that. You have to recognize that that person is going to be more difficult to break through but it also means that you’re going to have to think through, “Boy, what am I doing here? Am I really doing this for me or am I doing it for my customer?
There’s a sense here where the honesty that we’re getting from that customer is gonna cause us to have to be honest with ourselves. And am I more motivated by my commission than I am by my service? Am I more motivated by my quota than by taking care of my customer? And as far as I’m concerned, I think Marty took us down that path to cause us to really have some important and soul-searching questions about why we do what we do.
And if we can get past that sense of a biting sense because let’s face it, if somebody once said, that truth hurts, and it can hurt if we can get past that there are really, really valuable lessons. So I wanna encourage you here just to peel back a little bit and think through the truths of what we just heard. We would be a better industry if we were really thinking through what are we doing to serve this customer and put their interest ahead of our own?
Before we wrap it up, let me just suggest here something to you by way of conclusion on today’s episode. When you can respect someone, you can learn from someone. You may not agree and you may be shocked, and you might even be offended some way, but I want to argue that if you let those trigger moments do their work, they will cause you to be introspective. If you spend time only with those with whom you agree, how will you ever change your paradigm? How will you ever change your perspective? I don’t wanna be in a room where I’m only talking to people who are affirming the things that I already… I want to believe deeply and sometimes if I wanna believe deeply in anything that I need to have that challenged, I need people to step out and shock me just a little bit.
So I wanna encourage you, embrace the cynical buyer, find their truth. See what they are trying to tell you, and then do what you need to do to earn their trust. And here’s the good news, when you do, it’s gonna be the sweetest sale you will ever make. This is an idea where there is a mutual purpose here and I can look at it and say there could be victory for both sides by the time we’re done when we’re doing it right. Embrace the cynical buyer. Find their truth and that will give you the opportunity to make the biggest difference.
Well, there’s another episode of The Buyer’s Mind. We appreciate you subscribing to the podcast. Sending a link out on your social media page. Really appreciate that as well. But that’s a wrap, we hope you enjoyed it. You can find anything you need over at jeffshshore.com. But until next time, go out there my friends, and change someone’s world.